Police Fine Quota (7 News Report)

[hao.]

I was browsing another forum and found this topic. Most of you may have already seen this on the news but I thought I'd share it and see what you reckon.

http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/yaunzpop/popup/?rn=248153&cl=18384220&ch=&src=y7news

"Sydney police are being pressured into booking drivers for traffic offences under a controversial quota system."

[Nicko]

Nothing new.

Years ago in Brisbane, they used to play "Snooker" and take cars in the same colours and combinations you need when you play snooker...

[hao.]

I had a hunch it's been around for a while, I was kind of surprised it's ended up on the news after so long. lol.

[sun_moon]

it is wrong to have a quota system. 100% wrong.

but to be honest when i used to drive in melbourne, the amount of shit i saw was bad... like if i was in an unmarked police car, i could EASILY have given 20 tickets per day.... easily.

[Nicko]

Undercover cop?

[sun_moon]

unmarked police car. my bad.

edited original post to avoid confusion

[Frak]

Most definately true, I was talking to a motorcycle cop the other day saving lives(using laser gun!) he said that they had to have so many 'contacts' per hour.

[Sam-Q]

my dad thinks it's to stop them just lazing around at the station not doing any 'work'

but yeah this isn't exactly unknown information

[redsprinter]

yeah not exactly unknown .. but i still think its stupid. if this system is used to stop cops from being lazy it doesnt say much about our government.

you'd think that every person who joins the police force is there for a reason - to make a difference. to serve the community and enforce the law ... not a f***King ticket meter. there is so many things that they could be doing. ie educating the community/ school .. running driving program.. fuck even teaching learners about road laws , and their rights when they're not out there fighting crime.

[keiichi]

out west of where i used to live near byron bay i went to tafe in the country. it was 300-500 meters off the pacific highway along a country road. going in, the limit was drive to suit conditions and on the way out it was 60. a local police officer used to go there when-ever he needed to meet his quota knowing it was a tricky spot with lots of young blokes traveling along there.
ive been on my p-plates for almost 8 years now too >.<
i used to wonder how my mom went like 20 years without a single fine (or accident mind)... but last couple years shes got a few. her driving hasn't changed. we're expected to stare at our speedometer's constantly, personally i think that's dangerous.

[driftke70]

your 100% right keiichi, there are more and more distractions on the roads and the cops/gov are the ones putting them there.

[keiichi]

your 100% right keiichi, there are more and more distractions on the roads and the cops/gov are the ones putting them there.

its pretty f***** eh.
they cant possibly ALL be that stupid... so makes you wonder whats really up eh.

[blair]

HAHAHA like the MASSIVE sign around my area thats something like "PAY ATTENTION STUPID" (from the government)

duhhhh

[driftke70]

ive got a huge sign that flashes near me that says "distracted drivers are dangerous drivers"
its like well dont fucking distract me.

[keiichi]

kinda like this

[Rice86]

lmao, all this is bullshit, just a quick way to rack up easy money, seriously, fine for 10kmph over what the sign says, everyone drives beyond what a few old people working for the government does so they decide to rack in the money for it...old kunts stay off the roads

slow drivers cause accidents, also dickheads and idiots and lets face it, inexperienced street racers with a mighty V6-V8 under the bonnet aswell, most drivers are incompitent drivers and should be labeled and mark as failures and stripped of there license instead of picking on people who can drive but are force to break the law cause dumb people drive 50 in a 60 zone and 100 on a 110 freeway, seriously

[Mr Awsome]

i agree. people over the age of 60 should not be able to drive. there for half and i do mean half of all road traffic in australia would be taken off the road. as of 2010 current statistics say 60 year olds and over make up half of australia.

[Nicko]

^^^ Stupid post is stupid

What a load of BS

I know 60 year olds that could flog you on a race track

[keiichi]

^^^ getting slightly off topic guys.... just slightly

[Nicko]

Is anything on this forum ON topic? ever? :)

[keiichi]

for the OP yes

[timbo]

i thought this was common knowledge!

police create statistics, it's called over policing. that's how they get pubs to shut at 2 or 3am, simply over police a small area over a night or two, log the stats and hand in a report that is completely unfair and misleading of actually figures. the same applies on the road, booking people for minor offences then putting out media releases that "show" a high number of tickets issued, arrests etc.

my advice, if you get pulled over do not say a word. if they ask you a question just reply "no comment". if you are issued a fine you can contest it, that's what the magistrate is for! half the time the police lack any form of proof (except when they produce it on the spot, then you're stuffed). for example (slightly off topic), i was in court the other day where two guys were being charged with breaking a bouncer's nose and check bone (occasioning bodily harm). yet when the magistrate asked for medical evidence the police prosecutor failed to produce any...

[Nicko]

Exactly...

And everyone should STFU when they ask "any reason why you were speeding" because any reply validates the fact that you were indeed speeding.

Unless its a P2P or Mobile speed camera unit, then you're fucked :P

[4000GT]

Whats the point is having a big ole cry about getting a ticket, if you are breaking the law, you are breaking the law man up and take responsibility for your actions. if you dont want a ticket, dont break the law.

[Nicko]

You don't live in Australia, and as such you aren't aware of the BS that goes on over here.

Nobody was having a cry

Back under your rock with you're pineapple lumps and L&P...

[4000GT]

Well I have lived and driven in Melb for a number of months, and been to Sydney 14 times in the last year for work days at a time, and several times to Brisbane and a couple of weeks in Adeliade at New Years. So yeah I am aware in many cities what its like :) A quota has no effect on anyone not breaking the law, so its a massive cry.

[Nicko]

You can hardly argue that your "rentacar" that you've driven around Sydney got targeted like an AE86 or the like

A quota DOES have an effect on people not braking the law because said officers are making fines where previously people would have been let off without a warning.

Pish

[4000GT]

Nope I never got pulled over, as I never broke the law, so its not like I got lucky, I just never ran lights or sped. Again it only effects people breaking the law, dont speed (or whatever the offence) and you dont get a ticket. You cant expect to keep getting warnings for breaking the law, there has to be a deterrent for behaviour that contributes to killing innocent commuters. In my humble opinion.

[Nicko]

I think you need to go and have a look at the statistics of what percentage of speeding vehicles (single offence) as opposed to others were the results of deaths on roads.

Pretty sure you'll find that "changing CDs" or "Mobile Phone Usage" is a higher contributor to the roadtoll than speeding ever will be.

And it doesn't just affect those breaking the law... I'm sure my friend didn't deserve the ticket he got for having the rear seats in his Silvia folded down (standing defect, ticketed for modified seating capacity) and the others like "no gear pattern on gear knob" or the person with ripped seats which were under a seatcover at the time being defected.

Wake up doofus.

[4000GT]

I have not seen the statistics, I dont really need to, all I need to know is that speeding and running lights etc does contribute to the road toll and that police focusing on that makes the roads safer. Your second point is a paradox, you cant break the law and get a ticket (no matter the offence) and refer to those people not breaking the law.

[doots]

Nope I never got pulled over, as I never broke the law, so its not like I got lucky, I just never ran lights or sped. Again it only effects people breaking the law, dont speed (or whatever the offence) and you dont get a ticket. You cant expect to keep getting warnings for breaking the law, there has to be a deterrent for behaviour that contributes to killing innocent commuters. In my humble opinion.

i have never been pulled over for speeding let alone had a fine sent out in the mail. ive had nearly 500 dollars in fines and 1 time i blame my mates for distracting the SHIT out of me while i was nearly falling asleep at the wheel. im lucky ive never been pulled over speeding. oh so very lucky. i am smart and i can (dont dispute this) talk a cop out of nearly anything. i think that comes down to luck as well.
i know some1 who got a 500 dollar fine for a dirty number plate and when my knackered celica with bald tyres and stripped interior slid around devils elbow on a wet day and i pulled out infront of a copper, i got a cop shop defect and a " get new number plates btw this car is knackered"

if it was my kesev i wouldnt have even tried sweet talking him for fear of punishment.

[4000GT]

i have never been pulled over for speeding let alone had a fine sent out in the mail. ive had nearly 500 dollars in fines and 1 time i blame my mates for distracting the SHIT out of me while i was nearly falling asleep at the wheel. im lucky ive never been pulled over speeding. oh so very lucky. i am smart and i can (dont dispute this) talk a cop out of nearly anything. i think that comes down to luck as well.
i know some1 who got a 500 dollar fine for a dirty number plate and when my knackered celica with bald tyres and stripped interior slid around devils elbow on a wet day and i pulled out infront of a copper, i got a cop shop defect and a " get new number plates btw this car is knackered"

if it was my kesev i wouldnt have even tried sweet talking him for fear of punishment.

Ah ok, so the quota isnt an issue, and you are saying the people here and their mates who have got tickets are just too dumb since they cant talk a cop -out of nearly anything like you. Cool.

[Nicko]

you're a fucking noddy

[4000GT]

you're a fucking noddy

Ewwwww no you are.

[timbo]

this has turned rather humorous...

all i was stating was that police "create" statistics (by over policing) which in turn are used to "change/sway" the perception of society that they are major issues, in regards to driving related offences, when there are not.

saying that you won't be pulled over because you don't speed is just a mundane statement... what happens to those who speed and don't get pulled over?

the simple fact is that a police quota system exists and it is far from an effective way of policing.

perfect example last year here in brisbane when a cop pulled over a cab, couldn't find something major in which to fine him, and gave him probably the most trivial one of all; issuing him with a ticket for wearing the wrong socks with shorts. now what i find even more interesting is that the cop new that the offence even existed, real police work there...

ps. i wasn't having a cry about getting a ticket, infact i've never gotten a ticket. so instead of a "man up" attitude how about smarten up?

[Nicko]

Don't worry too much. Kiwi wanker has been banned.

[sun_moon]

i had a taxi crash into my mr2 and he pulled over and gave fake details.

anywhoo i had the police attend the accident, he was charged with failing to give way when changing lanes, but also giving fake details, and wearing incorect pants with his uniform, oh... and most importantly, not being a registered cab driver.

thank fuck for police. i have never had anything bad from them... i have driven through breath tests on friday nights in my low as fuck aw11 mr2, and all i have had is "fucking awesome car" and stuff like that.

i have found every Smelbourne police i have dealt with to be nice, profesinal and good at the job they can do.

cops are tops.

just my opinion...dont be hatin on me please.

[malohi]

Hello guys, first post in a long time.

In QLD there is no Police quota system, however like any job (retail, used cars) etc there are always those that want to be "the best" at what they do. Some try to validate themselves by competing with others in how may TINs they can issue. Some of the shitty defect tickets handed out in this regard are bullshit, that cabbie sock issue made my head spin.

Other times the officers may be from a traffic branch (local or state) and their entire job is to enforce the traffic laws. When enforcing the traffic laws they can either give warning (traffic cops generally don't do this), issue ticket, send you to court by notice or arrest you straight up. The most convenient for everyone is to issue a ticket and there are over 300 possible tickets.

So yeah again, in QLD no set quotas for tickets. Usually just traffic cops competing with eachother. Most of which are completely valid and necessary, sometimes there are shitty ones issued because the cop is a dick head sometimes because the driver has been a wanker.

Believe any conspiracy theory you want, that is the truth.


But honestly the only pressure on cops for staistics is for breath tests.

[mofo81]

But honestly the only pressure on cops for staistics is for breath tests.

I'll believe that when I get breathlysed more often than I see a fixed camera / speed camera / point to point camera / lidar

This quote summs it up best

"Speed cameras and poker machines, both have the same effect on the road toll"

:)

[Clinton]

Hello guys, first post in a long time.

In QLD there is no Police quota system, however like any job (retail, used cars) etc there are always those that want to be "the best" at what they do. Some try to validate themselves by competing with others in how may TINs they can issue. Some of the shitty defect tickets handed out in this regard are bullshit, that cabbie sock issue made my head spin.

Other times the officers may be from a traffic branch (local or state) and their entire job is to enforce the traffic laws. When enforcing the traffic laws they can either give warning (traffic cops generally don't do this), issue ticket, send you to court by notice or arrest you straight up. The most convenient for everyone is to issue a ticket and there are over 300 possible tickets.

So yeah again, in QLD no set quotas for tickets. Usually just traffic cops competing with eachother. Most of which are completely valid and necessary, sometimes there are shitty ones issued because the cop is a dick head sometimes because the driver has been a wanker.

Believe any conspiracy theory you want, that is the truth.


But honestly the only pressure on cops for staistics is for breath tests.


Everyone delete street drifting videos NOW!

[mofo81]

I have already made copies of all of yours and forwarded them to the people who need them.

Be afraid, be very afraid

[Frak]

Here in SA they DO have to meet a quota AND just recently they introduced a zero tolerance policy, from now on warnings(verbal or written) will not be given, you will be issued an infringement if they pull you over for something.

what really annoys me is, yesterday I saw a cop pull over a lowered car, but they passed a number of people sitting in the righthand lane WELL below the speedlimit(80km/h zone, and plenty of those "keep left unless overtaking" signs) to get to the lowered vehicle! They should be enforcing proper road rules!

[timbo]

well there may be no "official" quota system but im sure they have targets they are required to reach.

last night when i got home (sunday, around 10pm) at the end on milton road here in toowong they had two unmarked cars, 4 officers and two radar guns (and they whine about under resourcing...) pulling people over just after a slight hill where by the bottom you might be doing close to 70 without riding the brakes in a 60 zone. by the time you reach the bottom of the hill you are on the brakes for a round about just ahead, so to me this part of the road at that time of the night is of least concern. to me this is blatant ticketing for quotas to be met.

needless to say i waved a few cars down from the safety of my driveway!

offtopic - i read in the crappier mail today that the police union (biggest political lobby group for bullshit legislation in qld) want to lock more people up in watchhouses overnight to teach them a lesson! talk about a resourcing overload!

[driftke70]

do you think the police would leave a decent paper trail.

i have friends who are police, they were basically told by their superiors to get decent numbers or expect to never move up. He got heaps of fines and now hes a detective after 2 years.

[timbo]

^ definitely heard that before.

[kenoath]

So a vic police officer decided to pull me over the other night while I was driving my girlfriends Hyundai excel. He told me that he had estimated my speed at 107kmph. I was pretty shocked as this was the first time i had been pulled over for speeding. The thing is there is no possible way that bucket of shit excel could do 107kms on the rd I got pulled over on. There are 2 round about 200m apart from each other (one I turned right onto the road I got pulled over on) and I was pulled over about 300m from the round about. Doochebag had the nerve to tell me my speedo might be out I pointed out the stock wheels and he just didn't care. He heads back to his car comes back with a $300 fine and 4 points. Ive sent back the fine to take it to court so I need some advice on how I should fight this. My word against his isn't looking good for me.

[bernard]

Don't worry

As he said he only "estimated", did you admit on the spot that you were speeding?
If you didn't, just fight till the end, as they got no proof and no evidence.

Firstly you have to write a complete incident report, the report should record the whole story in details
then you have to print a google map and draw what happen at which point.

Secondly get your gf to write a report as well as she is the only witness, remember to write those words stating that she is telling the truth and acknowledge the consequence of making false statement.

Thirdly You should also get two experts written advice to proof that there is no way to speed on that road with such a car.

Plus i hope you have a good driving history, get a printout of your history from Vic Road if needed.

If you have prepared all of these and send to the court, they should withdraw the fine, as the police know they will definitely lose if you bring this to court.

[keiichi]

if they book you for speeding that have to prove it. they have to come up to your window and show you the speed you were doing. aslo, an estimation doesnt count obviously, but thats only going to fly for you if he used the word estimate in his report. if you geta lawyer, the prosecutor (if you go to court) has to show him the report, then you can use his words against him. estimations dont fly in court. you have evry right to fight it just be prepared for lots of bullshit, even if its not worth the effort because it might be "only $300", its worth standing up for yourself.
good luck.

[cbjaust]

In my opinion any speeding tickets issued by a so called "safety" (they used to called speed) camera should not come with a points penalty as those fines are 99.9% of the time simply there for revenue raising and not furthering road safety. If or when I get another one I might take it to court simply to protect my licence as far as the points penalty but still pay the fine and my argument for the court will be that I wanted to voluntarily contribute some more tax to the state revenue office.

Speed limits are far too low on most decent roads. Modern cars are far more capable. Licences are given out like lollies for a nominal fee and that licence effectively says that the licence holder knows the road rules and can operate a vehicle but is not taught how to drive, because if there was an aptitude/skill test for just driving a car appropriately and making informed decisions about how to proceed given the whatever conditions are present I reckon that about 95% of new drivers seeking a Licence would fail and then the rest of us could get on with getting from point A to point B on the public roads in the safest, fastest and most efficient manner with a minimum of fuss and the speed "limits" would be a guide and not an absolute limit, and any alleged speeding offences would be able to be argued in court on the grounds of reasonableness according to the conditions on the road at that time. We need to grow up and as a civil society stop making legislation that protects the lowest common denominator and start taking back personal responsibility and getting the pollies to legislate accordingly. We cannot protect people from themselves forever and we should not have to. The nanny state must be put to bed.

Rant over for now thanks for reading :-)

Cheers

[kenoath]

Don't worry

As he said he only "estimated", did you admit on the spot that you were speeding?
If you didn't, just fight till the end, as they got no proof and no evidence.


Thanks mate that's some good info

I told him I was doing 80 on the road I was on and I was doing 70 on the road he was following me down.

Where do I find 2 experts to write me up some proof?

and the reason I'm fighting it other then the fact I didn't do anything wrong is the fine would leave me on 1 point and fook that

[Low Style]

last night when i got home (sunday, around 10pm) at the end on milton road here in toowong they had two unmarked cars, 4 officers and two radar guns (and they whine about under resourcing...) pulling people over just after a slight hill where by the bottom you might be doing close to 70 without riding the brakes in a 60 zone. by the time you reach the bottom of the hill you are on the brakes for a round about just ahead, so to me this part of the road at that time of the night is of least concern. to me this is blatant ticketing for quotas to be met.

ahhh yes, I know where you are talking about. i have before asked cops like this why are they not fighting crime, protecting and serving the community and are just hanging out on a corner talkin shit and issues tickets.

my answer was basicly "do you want to get arrested"....... It's bullshit how they are just there to raise money and not fight or deter crime at all!

for instance get your modified car stolen and they will do fuck all about it. drive your modified car at the speed limit and too low and they will pull you over and fine you for it..

[timbo]

Thanks mate that's some good info

I told him I was doing 80 on the road I was on and I was doing 70 on the road he was following me down.

Where do I find 2 experts to write me up some proof?

and the reason I'm fighting it other then the fact I didn't do anything wrong is the fine would leave me on 1 point and fook that

I have heard of people proving this by timing the same run again via a camera. If you honestly believe your car can not do the speed the police officer "estimates" you were going then try this route.

Write down everything that happened before you saw the police car and everything after, try to remember exactly what you said and what the officer said. Police prosecutors are always struggling in court with this type of incident and if you can provide an extensive statement and some video evidence that it is impossible to do 107km/h, you will make the magistrate very happy indeed. And remember when you are pulled over, "no comment".

I have to agree with cbjaust, paternalism is this country is way out of hand. Up here is Brisbane you can get fined for leaving you wheelie bin out for a too long. My parent had a new hot water system put in last year and the maximum temperature allowed is 50 degrees so people don't scold themselves. You need a pool fence so children don't drown, regardless if you have children or whether you have an existing fence.

Policing has taken this path as it creates (or once did) the impression that police are doing something, and some people would agree that what they are doing is right. The enforcement of speeding is a relatively easy task for them as people will usually accept guilt or just pay the fine.

One thing that concerns me the most though are these new fixed digital cameras capable of detecting 1-2km/h increments. I have heard the claim that 1 or 2km/h over constitutes speeding thus you will be fined, and this is an example of pure revenue raising. Those sort of speeds are of no danger to anyone and there is also the fact that a speedometer is calibrated to 10%, people may already be "speeding" without realising.

[Rice86]

One thing that concerns me the most though are these new fixed digital cameras capable of detecting 1-2km/h increments. I have heard the claim that 1 or 2km/h over constitutes speeding thus you will be fined, and this is an example of pure revenue raising. Those sort of speeds are of no danger to anyone and there is also the fact that a speedometer is calibrated to 10%, people may already be "speeding" without realising.

im pretty sure that idea was binned and out the window, maybe they are in QLD but in NSW they are still the regular speed cameras and high way patrol cars...and the mobile speed cameras which are ninjas

[timbo]

And after all this talk I just got a speeding fine... Allegedly going 13km/h over which puts me bracket 2; 3 points and $200. Will be fighting this one for sure!

[malohi]

Police don't give fines for wheelie bins. Police also dont enforce hot water temps or pool fences, no one has ever or will ever be done in qld for 2km/h over. Speedo has tolerance of 10km/h maximum for adr compliance but must always be under, tolerance on the safe side. Most cars actually show a speed much fater than they are going.
but believe what you want.
Pm if you want some real inside info/advice from a prosecutor with a law degree.
Whatever you do, dont give a version of events to any police before court.
Timbo, feel free to pm as well.
BTW prosecutors do not struggle with speeding in general, it is one of the easiest cases to win if you were done by a radar or camera; even if you had an expert mechanical engeneer give evidence of the speed capability of your car you would be unlikely to even raise an eyebrow and the magistrate would be more likely to fall asleep then to enjoy your defence. There is a legal presumption of acuracy of the devices that is next to impossible to overcome. Running harebrained defences would only make you liable for the > $3000 experts the police will call to rebut them.

If however it was just the cop having a wild guess then I think you will find you may have better options before even going to court.

[timbo]

I wasn't implying that police fine you for wheelie bins etc, just making the point of the paternalistic nature of Australia and the government in general. PM's too.

[malohi]

I agree mate. Government is rediculous it is a nanny state fo sho.
But cops dont make the law, and only really enforce criminal law and keep the peace. That is only a tiny part of the law.
Police cop the brunt of the decisions of the govt by the public, some times it is justified, often not.

The worst part is these obscure laws get made that noone outside of the legal circle would have a clue about them, but by the time you get pinged it is too late.

Hope i helped with my PM reply, let me know how it goes.

[foamy]

And the police wonder why they get no respect.
*matt damon*
I had Bankstown highway patrol pull me over one day, and told me if I wanted to spin my wheels I should go and do it in the suburb I live in. It was pissing down rain but he wouldn't have a bar of it...

[Nicko]

^^ Edited

[charade_16v]

It was pissing down rain

sure....hehe jkz.