Universal 3sge (inc Beams) into AE/KE thread

[Sam-Q]

The purpose of this thread is to put together all the knowledge of doing a 3SGE Beams conversion in one place. I have coppied many threads into this from more than one source so it at times might not match so well.

To show who originally made the post I have copied the avatar and username of each person at the top of each post with their username clickable to see their profile.

Anyone who wishes to have a copy of their post removed let me know.



Link to information on clutches and flywheels for 3S engines:

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/showthread.php/21018


Beams rebuild (Toymods)

http://www.toymods.org.au/forums/showthread.php?t=64659"


Links to various 3SGE BEAMS engine worklogs/buildups:


Bill Sherwood's RHD AE86 + auto gearbox (http://www.billzilla.org/AE863SGE.htm)

Hachi Go- aeu86.org: RHD AE85 + 6 speed (http://www.aeu86.org/viewtopic/ae86/p/132490#132490)

[Sam-Q]

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/image.php?u=3463&dateline=1254502319 Prime86 (http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/member.php?3463-Prime86)

First of all awsome choice of engine to fit to an 86. These engines are one of the tuffest N/A motors around and can produce some serious power for a 2 litre engine. I was toying with the idea myself but because of the High comp setup its best to do work to the motor before bolting a turbo on the side or you will have problems when pumping boost into it, any more than about 4psi. They run 11.5.1 compression ratio and this is way to high for a turbo engine. I would put a set of pistons that Toda make and drop it to like 9.5.1 and a set of rods to make it reliabe and be able to put 20+ psi in it with big power gains. Beu Yates trd AE86 is on youtube which is fitted with a Beams 3sge turbo engine. Hypertune make an awsome intake manifold for the beams turbo engine but you will pay for it.

[Sam-Q]

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/image.php?u=1422&dateline=1277547806 sun_moon (http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/member.php?1422-sun_moon)

4age = slow and boring.

beams or turbo 4age imho. both proberly cost a similar amount to do PROPERLY.

but then again, doing things right the first time is not something ae86 and ke70 owners USUALLY do. so im sure people will tell you "buy 100 dollar china manifold and run it on stock ecu its fine bro"

research and do it properly the first time, it will save you in the long run.

[Sam-Q]

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/image.php?u=11&dateline=1237098340 Anthony (http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/member.php?11-Anthony)

Is it worth it? That is a very complex question. Comes down to so many factors. The beams setup may be 3k. But it will cost you 6k once in if you know a lot and can do a lot. Or 10-12k if you dont know so much. If you're posting this question here, I'm guessing 10-12k will be closer to the mark.

[Sam-Q]

Delazy (http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/member.php?193-Delazy)

i can tell you that after a 8k ae111 7ag build and a yet tba az6 6 speed conversion, a beams 3sge sounds like a damn smart idea haha...

the things we do :s

[Sam-Q]

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/image.php?u=1038&dateline=1275954813 Andy San (http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/member.php?1038-Andy-San)

So is the oil pump contained to a seperate piece on the front of the engine? such as a 4age? or does it extend down into the big aluminium cast section on the lower part of the engine?

Trying to work out how much space can be gained from making a dry sump pan for one of these, and if you can remove the whole aluminium cast section from the bottom or if you can only make a new sump pan to bolt to it that is more shallow.

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=8711&d=1266319159

found this picture, which is off a 3sge, but im not sure which gen it is, as the sump castings from the earlier generations are different.

i'm hoping this is off a beams, as it would make it much easier to fit into the engine bay, and hopefully solve my clearance issues that i can foresee happening.

I mean sump clearance with ground, crossmember, but also the little extension on the front of the motors which comes very close to the swaybar, if you can get rid of all of that there is loads of room.

[Sam-Q]

KE_70 (http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/member.php?221-ke_70)

mod the tunnel possably so it sits back further? this is how im clearing the swaybar.
how do jays mounts clear the crossmember? but this doesnt help ground clearence suppose you dont want to run a bash plate?

[Sam-Q]

if you can remove it altogether you will gain about 100mm of drop in the overall motor mounting position, which will make fitting everything a lot better.

how does that oil pump thingy let the motor sit lower?

[Sam-Q]

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/image.php?u=11&dateline=1237098340 Anthony (http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/member.php?11-Anthony)

Yes you can lose both sections of the sump (alloy and steel) if you go dry sump. The oil pump is a separate unit on the front of the motor, driven by the timing belt, as they are on all "S" motors. Sam I wouldn't contemplate using a 2S setup. That's how you lose motors, especially for circuit work. The stock Beams setup is quite good, but if you really cant fit it go dry sump.

[Sam-Q]

well it would be obvious that the engine can be lowered with a dry sump I just didn't know that's what he meant.

So whats the issue with the S series sump, so a no goer eh?

[Sam-Q]

af300e (http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/member.php?144-af300e)

It's a backwards step from the stock beams sump. The 2s baffling is shite and the pump setup is different. The gen3 and beams 3s motors run the pump pressure relief in the alloy section of the sump. The filter is also mounted on the side of this alloy section.
Putting a 2s sump on this type of pump will mean that no oil reaches the motor, it just gets dumped back into the sump.

To use a 2s sump you'd need to change the pump to a gen 2 style pump, but it needs to have the crank angle sensor provision. Then you'd have a setup that cost money and is rubbish compared to a standard beams setup.

The 2s change is of more use for converting fwd style 3s motors to rwd.

[Sam-Q]

yeah ok thanks for the good answer. So can the beams sump be shortened? I don't mean like much, lets say 20mm?

[Sam-Q]

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/image.php?u=130&dateline=1229857873 driftke70 (http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/image.php?u=130&dateline=1229857873)

my standard sway bar clears the sump by about 20mm or more but i moved my motor back about 60mm.

beams sump was shockingly well designed.

[Sam-Q]

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/image.php?u=11&dateline=1237098340 Anthony (http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/member.php?11-Anthony)

Mine also fit behind a standard bar, which means Brendans did too I guess :)

[Sam-Q]

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/image.php?u=1038&dateline=1275954813 Andy San (http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/member.php?1038-Andy-San)

Are they fitted in without cutting out anything?

With a w-series box?

[Sam-Q]

buddyparts (http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/member.php?19-buddyparts)

Mine fits easy with stock sway bars, what i think Andy is getting at is he wants to not mod the tunnel at all and thinks if he has the motor forward it will fit without tunnel mods.

[Sam-Q]

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/image.php?u=11&dateline=1237098340 Anthony (http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/member.php?11-Anthony)

At the risk of some sort of argument, you can actually modify the tunnel in IPRA in order to accomodate a gearbox of more suitable strength. You can't change the firewall though, that's true. I think if you were really tricky you could get one in an 86 with no firewall mods nor any swaybar mods. And this would have far more benefit than simply avoiding a custom swaybar if you get what I mean.

Also, you can run the 6 speed as plenty of IPRA cars already do, you just have to lock 1st gear out. Which is fine as its of no real use anyway. This gives you a much closer set of gears (2nd-6th) than a stock W box. If you're rich however, or at least have the budget to do things properly, get a built W box for sure.

[Sam-Q]

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/image.php?u=239&dateline=1229852064 fantapants (http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/member.php?239-fantapants)

canyou "clearance " the firewall? like love taps? or belting the crap out of it but NO cutting?

brendan recons he got his in with no cutting. I ran out of talent, but i think if you were clever and had a bit of skill, you could get the engine to where i and brad have it without cutting. in the end i only cut cos it was easier....

[Sam-Q]

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/image.php?u=1014&dateline=1262003020 s14seriesII (http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/member.php?1014-s14seriesII)

what is exactly out the back of the motor so far that the firewall needs modifying ?

mine is a long way back.. and still no clearance issues.. altho getting to the top bell housing bolts nearly requires a special spanner..

or is it simply to get the sump to clear the sway bar ?

[Sam-Q]

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/image.php?u=11&dateline=1237098340 Anthony (http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/member.php?11-Anthony)

No it's not. To me, it's more about optimal weight balance than getting a special swaybar. Hence my previous post. On the beams theres one fitting out the back with some unnecessary water fittings and a necessary oil drain. Not too big a deal, less than what's on a gen2/3 anyway.

[Sam-Q]

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/image.php?u=1014&dateline=1262003020 s14seriesII (http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/member.php?1014-s14seriesII)


ah ok.. so main priority is really weight balance ? with the pay off of fitting the beams oil pan in aswell..

i should measure how far back mine is.. compared to all these would be interesting..

i think the middle of my motor is further back than the middle of a 4age.. by about 2 inches at a guess..

[Sam-Q]

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/image.php?u=239&dateline=1229852064 fantapants (http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/member.php?239-fantapants)

thebiggest hurdle for me was the bell housing at the snout of the tunnel? it just rubbed too hard on the ribs... didnt have any idea how much the motor would move sooo made more room than i need.

can get regular spanners in the back to get engine off bell, so plenty of room.

my engine also sits a fair bit behind where the 4a did ...

[Sam-Q]

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/image.php?u=1014&dateline=1262003020 s14seriesII (http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/member.php?1014-s14seriesII)

ah yes.. i am maybe running my engine a bit lower than the normal..
the crankshaft counterweights would be about half an inch off the crossmember.. the sump has cut outs where it goes over the steering rack even..
this may have made fitting teh R154 easier aswell..

[Sam-Q]

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/image.php?u=11&dateline=1237098340 Anthony (http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/member.php?11-Anthony)

eah weight balance. Everyone has different priorites with a conversion like that, and it's always a compromise. It's like if you say you didn't have to modify the swaybar people reading assume you placed the engine where you did so you didn't have to modify the swaybar. I know full well how easy it is to get a custom swaybar, so I would never let that factor affect engine position too much. They don't get that that was just a lucky byproduct of a better engine placement.

[Sam-Q]

Celica RA45 (http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/member.php?173-Celica-RA45)

anthony did you get the motor in with out spacing the xmember down 25mm like mister sherwood did at all
and yes you are right its the oil drain back that is the problem to fit into a car .i just made the bar up to fit so it was easy for me and also at the same time the bar was made as a fully adjustable as well
in my 45 which is bigger and heavier than the 86 my weight ratio with a f series disc barke rear is 52 front and 48 rear with me in the car
would be good to see what the spoontah comes in at
on the box issue its 4 kilos in weight difference between the w and the j box but also gear stick is further back as well

also didnt you from memory, cut the fire wall to get it in as well

[Sam-Q]

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/image.php?u=1014&dateline=1262003020 s14seriesII (http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/member.php?1014-s14seriesII)

this is a different topic but the heavier diff doesnt really contirbute to better weight balance as it unsprung..
moving battery into the boot, fuel system, swirl pot etc help weight balance

[Sam-Q]

Celica RA45 (http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/member.php?173-Celica-RA45)

all GT s run F series disc brake rears as std ,dont think a T series would be up to it

[Sam-Q]

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/image.php?u=1014&dateline=1262003020 s14seriesII (http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/member.php?1014-s14seriesII)

i wasnt saying to use a lighter diff.. just saying that the diff doesnt help weight distribution.. i have a hilux diff in my 86..

[Sam-Q]

Celica RA45 (http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/member.php?173-Celica-RA45)

this is for you anthony ,you cannot cut the tunnel but minor reshaping can be done with hammer but metal cannot be taken a way or added for a bigger box

The relevant transmission tunnel regs.
3.2 Transmission tunnel: Minor reshaping of the body is permitted to enable fitment of replacement gearboxes and clutch assemblies.

The important words are "minor reshaping", so small amounts of say hammer work would be OK, but removing metal and replacing it with other metal of a different shape is most certainly not. This "minor reshaping" is of course restricted to the transmission tunnel and strictly that necessary for the fitments of gearbox and clutch. Not the firewall and not the engine.

[Sam-Q]

thebiggest hurdle for me was the bell housing at the snout of the tunnel? it just rubbed too hard on the ribs... didnt have any idea how much the motor would move sooo made more room than i need.

can get regular spanners in the back to get engine off bell, so plenty of room.

my engine also sits a fair bit behind where the 4a did ...

is this with the stock 6 speed?

so guys the limiting fator in what hits first is the bellhousing then?

[Sam-Q]

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/image.php?u=239&dateline=1229852064 fantapants (http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/member.php?239-fantapants)

nah im running a 3y bell with a w57... apparently the 6 speed bell taper is worse?

[Sam-Q]

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/image.php?u=11&dateline=1237098340 Anthony (http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/member.php?11-Anthony)

Yeah the 6 speed taper is worse. Still, plenty of IPRA corolla guys running them. I think for the money and the application they make a fair bit of sense.

[Sam-Q]

Anthony does the Y and the W series bellhousing take up the same amount of space roughly?

[Sam-Q]

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/image.php?u=11&dateline=1237098340 Anthony (http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/member.php?11-Anthony)

Y and W? what do you mean? Y goes on a W. Y and other types of W bells take up the same space yeah. They all leave the spigot in mid air, so you need to address that. An altezza flywheel takes care of this as it has the spigot bearing in the flywheel.

Is that what you meant?

[Sam-Q]

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/image.php?u=1038&dateline=1275954813 Andy San (http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/member.php?1038-Andy-San)


What do you mean by leaving the spigot in mid air?

[Sam-Q]

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/image.php?u=11&dateline=1237098340 Anthony (http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/member.php?11-Anthony)

well it doesnt make it into the crank, like it does with a T50 etc.

[Sam-Q]

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/image.php?u=1038&dateline=1275954813 Andy San (http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/member.php?1038-Andy-San)

Can someone with a 3y bellhousing measure how long it actually is? I have another one, which has the starter and clutch on the exhaust side which if it is the same length as a 3y one I can use it to fit up my motor.

[Sam-Q]

Celica RA45 (http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/member.php?173-Celica-RA45)

i use a custom 2s bellhousing and put a longer spigot bearing into the back of the crank ,problem fixed

[Sam-Q]

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/image.php?u=1038&dateline=1275954813 Andy San (http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/member.php?1038-Andy-San)


i use a custom 2s bellhousing and put a longer spigot bearing into the back of the crank ,problem fixed

Does this mean that all cars running w-series boxes have spigot bearings in the flywheel? Or do 22re motors etc have a crank that protrudes further back into the bellhousing, as I was under the impression that the bearing was in the crank on those engines.

Do aftermarket flywheels to suit altezza/beams have provison for a bearing? Or do they need to be altered

[Sam-Q]

Celica RA45 (http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/member.php?173-Celica-RA45)

well i have had both boxes in ,and it was easier for me to put spigot into back of crank than back of flywheel as my f/wheel is 3 kilos in weight

[Sam-Q]

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/image.php?u=11&dateline=1237098340 Anthony (http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/member.php?11-Anthony)

Yeah any altezza clutch kit, oem or aftermarket has the bearing in the flywheel. Also, other RWD later model S motors have it in the flywheel as well, like 3/4SFE from cressida's and townace vans. These are 8 bolt as well, although not the correct hole size or PCD for beams 3SGE's, they can be modified to work.

[Sam-Q]

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/image.php?u=3040&dateline=1247014792 takai (http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/member.php?3040-takai)

On either the Y or S bellhousing you can use a double row spigot bearing which will support the input shaft just fine.

[Sam-Q]

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/image.php?u=1038&dateline=1275954813 Andy San (http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/member.php?1038-Andy-San)

Where is the clutch/starter located on the 2s bellhousing?

[Sam-Q]

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/image.php?u=11&dateline=1237098340 Anthony (http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/member.php?11-Anthony)

S has them both on the passenger (exhaust) side, Y has them both on the drivers side.

The reason I prefer the altezz clutch kit idea over the double row spigot bearing is that it solves a few of the big 3S RWD headaches all at once. Namely, bearing, flywheel, ring gear and clutch.

[Sam-Q]

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/image.php?u=1038&dateline=1275954813 Andy San (http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/member.php?1038-Andy-San)

Anthony do you have a certain starter motor that you use for the 3y bellhousing? I wouldn't imagine that the original one from the 6 speed fits

[Sam-Q]

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/image.php?u=3040&dateline=1247014792 takai (http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/member.php?3040-takai)

3S FWD one fits im pretty sure.

[Sam-Q]

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/image.php?u=239&dateline=1229852064 fantapants (http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/member.php?239-fantapants)

ANDY... hav a look a roidchikens thread... good starter solution.... brad is a clever lil boy

the problem we found was getting one to clear the stearing.... with the 3y bell the starter is rotated much further around the bell than the original 6 speed...

brad made a spacer to mount a 22re i think it was... worked purfect.

the beams clutch and flywheel kit is a great solution dont see muc need to fuck about with other stuff.

the back of the engine i went with was

3y bell modified by ant
altezza trd clutch and flywheel
3y clutch fork and clutch slave
w57
22re starter with bradspec mount

hth
even for a muppet like me it all bolted up and worked.

[Sam-Q]

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/image.php?u=1038&dateline=1275954813 Andy San (http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/member.php?1038-Andy-San)

What gets modded on the bellhousing?

[Sam-Q]

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/image.php?u=11&dateline=1237098340 Anthony (http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/member.php?11-Anthony)

One of the top bell housing to block 12mm bolt holes is out by about 15mm. The other 3 and both dowels are fine, just that one hole. Worth it to get the clutch and starter on the drivers side.

[Sam-Q]

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/image.php?u=130&dateline=1229857873 driftke70 (http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/image.php?u=130&dateline=1229857873)


indeed

you ever end up doing those modified 20v starters?

[Sam-Q]

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/image.php?u=1038&dateline=1275954813 Andy San (http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/member.php?1038-Andy-San)


One of the top bell housing to block 12mm bolt holes is out by about 15mm. The other 3 and both dowels are fine, just that one hole. Worth it to get the clutch and starter on the drivers side.

Definately. The 2s one wouldn't work with a beams anyway as the starter would be right in the way of the oil drain.

[Sam-Q]

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/image.php?u=11&dateline=1237098340 Anthony (http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/member.php?11-Anthony)


indeed

you ever end up doing those modified 20v starters?

I found 2 20V starters which I have here. Just no bell housings around to set the job up with. Sold them all. Easy enough job though, if anyone needs a bell housing modified with a modded starter to go with it I could do that.

[Sam-Q]

Celica RA45 (http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/member.php?173-Celica-RA45)

so andy when you set this up for ipra it might pay you to get a racing clutch ,like a 5inch dia . i seem to be braking straps all of the time
and if you saw what i put up you are not aloud to cut the tunnel at all only love taps same for the fire wall

[Sam-Q]

hey can someone post a pic of how the 3S beams sump fits in relation to the steering rack and crossmember?

[Sam-Q]

now with this has all been coppied to here this is open for further discussion.

Here is a new question for you guys, whats the big deal about the oil return in the way? I mean why not make a new one that goes around the starter? Without me ever seeing one I don't know what the deal is

[twisted]

with the way my mounts are going to sit i have to cut some of the sump webbing just near the bellhousing. this is to clear the steering rack brackets


http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=11892&d=1277724067
sorry about the crappy red lines but you get the idea

this is with the beams version. the motor will sit under the seam on the firewall. so this is if you want it as low and far back as possable. you will most probley (6sp defenently) need a new tunnel and bash plate if you go to this extreme


who knows alittle more about the quads convertion for beams? throttle setup most specificly

[Celica RA45]

you need to run black top throttles as a minimum or larger such as up to 50mm

[AJPS]

So glen, im going to run cams in my motor 268s, will i need to go bigger than black top quads? What do you suggest?

[Celica RA45]

so you are going to use the toda cams, that can use the std ecu, 268 on inlet and 264 on exhaust .
std cam is 264 on inlet so you are not going up much so the black tops will be fine
its when you increase lift .like 14mm and more duration like 320 advertised and 266 at 50 would be better off with bigger throttles and more comp etc

[AJPS]

I was going to use thinner headgasket etc,

what options are there for bigger quads? As in that have adapters available

Ill take it to pm

[Celica RA45]

my inlets will suit black top or my 48/50 mm throttles ,and using the thinner head gasket is not worth the 250 that it costs when it only moves the comp from 11.5 to 1 to 11.9 to 1

[Andy San]

If anyone has dry sumped one of these what brand pump did you use and where abouts did you locate it?

[AJPS]

What about a data base of

Things like

Oil filters
Spark plugs
Head gaskets etc

General consumables.

[Sam-Q]

can someone tell me if any bellhousing off a Y engine will be compatiable with an S engine after the pre mentioned mods?

[assassin10000]

Yes.

I haven't looked into what other transmissions the Y-series may have come with, so make sure it mates to a G5x trans (same pattern as W55-59) if your going to try and RWD a 3S.

Andrew

[Sam-Q]

thanks, might you happen to know which vehicles came with that gearbox in australia? which versions are there exactly so I may look it up? G5?

[assassin10000]

G52 for example (replace X with whatever 'version' of the g5x series trans it is).

Toyota 'Van's' would have them, liteace/townace. Some Crowns. I'd try and cross reference off this list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Y_engine as I'm not exactly sure what you guys would have gotten.

Andrew

[Sam-Q]

yeah I saw that list but I didn't know which ones where the same as the W box, ok time to go hunting at the self serve wrecker.

Oh and it's for a 5S, same thing I know

[Andy San]

sam i have a g52 box at home, thought it was a w57 till i looked closely at it the other day. (4 bolt shifter) Mine is from a 2wd hilux with a 22r motor. they have crappy ratios for any sort of sporty driving though.

[Anthony]

can someone tell me if any bellhousing off a Y engine will be compatiable with an S engine after the pre mentioned mods?

Yes it will

[Andy San]

Anthony, when you wire up the adaptronics for a beams how do you wire up the crank trigger?

i am wonding how i do it on my haltech, as the beams differs from the 4age as it has a 24+1 wheel on the crank (i think) but it only has a 2 wire sensor. where as the 4age has a 24 tooth wheel and a home sensor which are wired seperate. so how do you go about wiring them up to it recognises what is crank angle and what is home?

[Anthony]

No like you said its only 2 wire. That means it has only one pickup. The wheel this pickup is looking is 36-2, as it is with most late model toyotas. The ECU can detect the missing tooth (from the assumption that the engine can only slow down a certain amount between any 2 real teeth) and then knows the next actual tooth is "home". Your haltech should be fine with this, it will mean waste spark and semi seq injection though. Are you running VVT? Which haltech is it?

[Andy San]

I am using an E8

so i am guessing that the std ecu uses the crank trigger wheel and then the cam sensors to work out where it is at? so if i was to add in a home signal for it then it could work as per normal? it has a provision for 36+2 and a cam home signal.

The only thing is that the cam home would repeat itself several times per crank rotation

EDIT: just noticed it has 36+2 and cam home (3 pulse) which is listed as toyota and would work with the 3 prong cam lobe for the sensor wouldn't it?

[Anthony]

I dont know haltechs that well but it sounds like it might work. Im sure it can do the 36-2 part which gives the half home. That works fine. For example, toyota dont even have a full reset on a VVT 1/2JZ, just the 36-2, and thats a very late model $100k+ vehicle.

[Andy San]

yeah i've done a bit more looking into it and it appears to be the correct trigger setup, it has a fair bit of VVT setup stuff in the program as well which makes me think it is right.

[Anthony]

cool, good luck!. Beau yates' E11V2 couldnt do both cams, so hopefully theyve updated since then or something.

[Andy San]

I'm running it sans VVTi for that very reason, there isn't enough pwm outputs to do it all unfortunately.

[Anthony]

damn. thats the best bit.

[Sam-Q]

well I have been doing a lot of thinking and I was wondering why hasn't anyone used the gearbox and integral bell out of an st-141 corona with it's Borgy box?

I am going to give it a shot.

[Anthony]

well wouldnt work on a beams, starter on the wrong side. normal 3S I guess it could work.

[Sam-Q]

well unless you move the oil drain right?

but yeah so far so good in my research: 2S flywheel + clutch + sump + pickup + borg warner on a 5SFE which should be in my hands shortly. A completely bolt on job from what I have looking into so far.

Also this is for a daily and I know it's only a 5S but should work great for my KE70 wagon.

[Andy San]

i am planning on using a 2s bellhousing with mine, the oil drain still fits pretty easily, just needs to come out and around the starter.

[Anthony]

Fair enough. I just dont understand why anyone building a track car wouldn't want to move the clutch slave, hose and starter away from the exhaust. Even if only to make the job of fitting a decent exh system easier, let alone the immense increase in reliability. Anyway, Im sick of saying it. :)

[assassin10000]

^ agreed.

Andrew

[Andy San]

going internal clutch throwout carrier and bearing, never really had any issues with the starter being on the exhaust side with the 4age, so i'll give it a try on this one

[Sam-Q]

copied from Rollaclub from the member nomis:

Got some dimensions for people, seeking guidance if this is possible to drop in their car..

This is all measured roughly but can't be 100% accurate but its to the best of my ability.

Widest point of the motor including intake manifold and exhaust manifold
- width 715mm

Bell housing measurements
- width 370mm
- length 260mm

Gearbox measurements -
- width 190mm
- length 585mm
- length including bell housing - 845mm

engine length
- 590mm
overall length including gearbox
- 1350mm



Now in other news I had the oppertunity to machine down a Y bellhousing and see how it fitted, it really doesnt look hard at all to convert. Machinging the bellhousing will mean a starter motor spacer is neded but that's no big deal.

[Anthony]

what do you have to machine down exactly? I used a 3Y bell, took a 20V starter, cut one ear off and tigged it back on 30 degrees or so further around the (putting the mounting lugs in a shallow Vee rather than in line as per the 20V). Bolted it up and its working fine to this day. A nice compact, reliable yet serviceable (20V starters usually go in the scrap bin), reduction type starter.

In my eyes just something working isnt reason enough to do it when solutions that are far better are easily available. I mean, toyota put the 4AGE slave on the drivers side, yet hundreds of ADM/SR5 swaps have proven that this isn't a huge deal. Despite that, if I was building a race car for 10, 20 maybe 30 grand, I'd be building it to be as reliable as possible in every way, given how many things will come up that you didnt think of. Following from the 4AGE example, I think you would be absolutely crazy not to pay the $150 and grab a JDM bell. The same logic applies here, just with nearly twice the power and half the room - even moreso :) If even just to have easier access to the slave. You need cars to be reliable, but to also be rapidly serviceable should things go wrong. And they do. Slave cylinders and starter motors are right up on the list of what can go wrong at the track too. :) I would strongly suggest having them cool, and accessible.

[Sam-Q]

you make good points and I agree with you.

I have machined down both sides of the bellhousing close to 8mm in total by memory. I have seen this once before to avoid the use of the double row spigot or an extender, but in this case the gearbox splines where not long enough to allow his twin plate clutch to work. So he took care of 2 problems at once.

[toygt]

link g4 ecu can run both cams vvti no problems my mate has one in his trueno notch with black top quads and six speed
he cleans up nissans in the drift south series with it

[CoR*]

Is there much of a size difference between the W-5* and the altezza box, as in room in tunnel wise / shifter position exc?
Cheers CoR*

[Anthony]

yeah all of the above

[CoR*]

details k go...

[Anthony]

It's been covered, and expressing carefully considered opinions with supporting evidence for and against as well as actual experience doing it each way will probably just start an epic argument of some sort anyway. :)

[fantapants]

your sounding cynical ant :)

[CoR*]

extremely helpful cheers

[fantapants]

well its all there mate...

w bell is smaller with a sharper taper to the box.
w box is slightly shorter, has a variety of shifter positions
6 speed is longer, has very long shifter location, and shallow long taper on the bell.

[Celica RA45]

actully the 6speed and w series box are the same length overall its the gear stick which sits back further thats the problem and bigger bellhousing being lomger as well

[davidwillson]

you can't cut floors out in IPRA

if i'm going to put one of these in i want to do it properly and get it as low and as far back as possible.

has anyone got any pictures of beau yates's setup with the dry sump from the underside of the car? all the photos i have are from the top, and you can't see what the lower section of the motor looks like.





if you can remove it altogether you will gain about 100mm of drop in the overall motor mounting position, which will make fitting everything a lot better.

Andy
i just had a sway bar made up to go around the sump ,kept std bar there and used some coat hanger to bend it in the right posi and then marked it and had a new 1 made
on the dry sump i have the pan and pump and also the brackets for it to bolt up to the motor etc ,its all as new ,i just havnt got around to use it yet
pump is a 3 stage pump with 2 stage suck and 1 stage pump bracket bolts to the exhaust side and does pump with belt and bolt that supports the front pulley for oil pump also have a spare idle pulley that sits on the std pump etc


___________________
watch movies online (http://moviesonlinefree.biz/)

[4.5AG]

actully the 6speed and w series box are the same length overall its the gear stick which sits back further thats the problem and bigger bellhousing being lomger as well

I've noticed that most of the conversions were done using 5 speed.
Has anyone done a 6 speed conversion? What modifications needed to be done on the firewall/ tunnel section?
Vener

[70XIN]

^ Anthony has, amongst others.

It has a fairly "big" bellhousing with a long taper, so i'd say you would have to do something with the tunnel, unless you want to move your engine heaps forward. But yeah, if Ant finds this thread he will be able to comment :)

[Touge Boy]

I've noticed that most of the conversions were done using 5 speed.
Has anyone done a 6 speed conversion? What modifications needed to be done on the firewall/ tunnel section?
Vener

I have the 6 speed in. result.... new tunnel.

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/1/8/9/9/54537.jpg

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/1/8/9/9/56485.jpg

My engine is almost touching the firewall though. Some mods needed to the sump and crossmember as well to get it as low as possible.

[ke_70]

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/2/2/1/56870.jpg

the gearbox sits heaps high with how i mounted it
i also realised you can move the shifter forward soon after cutting out the floor :( lol

it is possable to drop our motor position ben by about 30mm atleast. but this would drop the sump like 60mm below the crossmember :S this would be the way to fit in the standed tunnel.

there is some one floating around here with the 6sp in the standed tunnel though

[Touge Boy]

Im happy with how mine sits, I kinda wish i'd gone dry-sump so I could use the OEM tunnel, but was kinda happy with the way I went when Andy filled me in on the pricing haha.

[ke_70]

yeah im going to see if i can raise the steel sump pan up so i can drop the motor abit more. ill have a chat with glen and see what he can do with it.

that whole section of the rear alloy sump bit (where the webbing was growned away abit) can be growned away flat all together!

[4.5AG]

I have the 6 speed in. result.... new tunnel.

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/1/8/9/9/54537.jpg

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/1/8/9/9/56485.jpg

My engine is almost touching the firewall though. Some mods needed to the sump and crossmember as well to get it as low as possible.

Any pics of the engine mount and engine cross member.
I also found out from kelpro catalogue similarly shaped (cylindrical engine mounts) to the 3sge beams that might be smaller in height.
Toyota Cressida MX83R part no. MT8270
MT 8007 land cruiser fj40 from 7/80 onwards, rubber only no bolt specs 67mm diameter,30 mm high,and 13 mm diameter of the centre hole for bolt.
MT8128 peugeot
MT8149/MT8150 Saab
MT8136 BMW
MT8152N Ford 53mm height,70mm diameter, stud/bolt 10mm
MT8154N jaguar 42 mm h,70mm diameter,stud/bolt 10mm
MT8155 ford ,cylindrical mount with moulded bracket, 2 bolt holes height from top of bolt to bottom 92mm, diameter 97 mm, height of plate/bracket to top of bolt 75mm MT 8155N urethane
MT8375 Nissan
And many more...
Hope this helps,
Does anyone know the specs of the STD 3sge mount, height width, etc..
My engine and gearbox is due to arrive dec from j land. I'll try to gather lots of info and associated parts to fit this engine to my trueno.
Cheers,
Vener

[ke_70]

me and touge boy use the buddyparts ae86>beams engine mounts.

these are fucking pro as it mounts the motor mm's off the steering rack and the fire wall. its also a good compromise between the sump clearence and engine height. the motor clears the oem bonnet if you cut some the webbing out or just not keep the cover like me.
these mounts bolt up to a standed ae86(/ae71?) crossmember and even use the standed 4a engine rubber mounts.

they also do the gearbox crossmember for the 6sp's to but i just made my own.....

[Touge Boy]

Any pics of the engine mount and engine cross member.


That's my crossmember, Ill try to get a good pic of the engine mounts today.

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/1/8/9/9/51675.jpg

[4.5AG]

That's my crossmember, Ill try to get a good pic of the engine mounts today.

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/1/8/9/9/51675.jpg


Pics would be appreciated
Cheers,
Vener

[ke_70]

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/2/2/1/396003.jpg
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/2/2/1/56793.jpg

[Andy San]

can I block this off:

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/1/0/3/8/57835.jpg

without making something explode/overheat?

[Celica RA45]

thats just the heat exchanger by pass ,just run a hose from that to the other pipe that runs from the by pass on the water pipe to the haet exchanger

[Andy San]

that other pipe is getting removed as well, along with the heat exchanger... if it is just a bypass then blocking it should be fine I would imagine

[Celica RA45]

if you remove the other water pipe you will over heat it as it is a 2 step thermo sta t,and it uses this on start up to warm up quicker same with the heat exchanger it warms up the oil then when it gets up to temp cools the oil down

[Andy San]

I'm fitting an oil cooler on the return line for the dry sump, so it can cool it that way, the water in that pipe only goes round the back of the head for the heater and the lines for the cold start throttle body doesn't it? I'm not running either so I figured it would be fine? It still has the other bypass tube that runs from the rear of the thermostat to the upper radiator outlet, which i thought was the critical bypass

[Celica RA45]

on the dry sump set up scavenge then straight to oil cooler ,
cooler to dry sump tank ,tank to oil filter then into motor

[Andy San]

yeah that's what I'm doing

[Sam-Q]

a few questions for people, assuming the use of the OEM ECU and 6 speed:

- how does one connect the ae86 speedo and tacho?

- is the beams fly by wire? if so does it crack the shits when you manually control it?

[70XIN]

I can't comment if the OEM ECU requires a signal from an electric speedo drive, but i know (from my 4AG->J160 setup) that a W5X speedo drive fits wonderfully well in place of the electric drive.

And you can probably get a tacho signal by making a 'tacho booster', running off the IGF of one of the coils.

[fantapants]

the oem computer requires the use of the original dash to be of any use.... soo all connections for speed and tach etc must be kept the same. Im sure there is a very clever person out there able to fool the computer into seeing the standard dash setup, but for the most part, its the only way i have seen to get it going with stocko computer...

[assassin10000]

The OEM BT Beams ecu has a tachometer output. So either build a tach booster, or modify the circuit board.
Speedo can be converted to mechanical as said above.
The oil pressure sender might work directly with the AE86 dash, test procedure is similar for that part # IIRC (use a light bulb inline & count pulses/blinks).
For coolant, you could add a single wire coolant temp sender by drilling/tapping the upper waterneck. I have an idea for a 2nd option, but not sure if it'll work yet.


I don't know of any need for the OEM dash, it just has a 'multiplex' input so it gets some engine data (IE: temperature, A/T gear position) from the ECU. That way they didn't need to use a second temp sensor, or run more wires for the A/T. According to the diagrams from Bill, tachometer has its own input from a tach output on the ECU. Also the CEL has a seperate output.

Andrew

[Sam-Q]

you can adapt the speedo cable from a W55 onto an Aisin 6 speed?

The rest seem reasonable enough.

SO any clues on the fly by wire? will it crack it when you manually control it like the way the BMW's do?

[ke_70]

abit unrelated i know, but scince were on the topic of beams and tachos

how can i get my standed ae86 tacho working with the adaptronic?

i tryed conneting the ign3 to the tacho but no go?
do i have to tap into an ign wire on a coil?

[Sam-Q]

theres a sneaky trick using a relay coil to get the right high voltage pulses. I think you put the coil inline with the signal or something.

[assassin10000]

Clay, search toymods for tacho booster. There is also the option of buying an MSD 8920 tach adapter or dakota digital SG something or other. I'm going to try and go the modified circuit board route... I just hope it works out :oh: .


Sam, if using the stock intake manifold/fly by wire it's fairly simple. The throttle body has 2 sensors, one for pedal position which utilizes a standard style cable attatchment and a second for butterfly position controlled by a motor. It's all integrated/mounted to the throttle body itself, just find a cable that fits (or make one). The rest is controlled by the ECU.

Andrew

[Sam-Q]

wow how strangely easy, thanks Andrew

[fantapants]

The OEM BT Beams ecu has a tachometer output. So either build a tach booster, or modify the circuit board.
Speedo can be converted to mechanical as said above.
The oil pressure sender might work directly with the AE86 dash, test procedure is similar for that part # IIRC (use a light bulb inline & count pulses/blinks).
For coolant, you could add a single wire coolant temp sender by drilling/tapping the upper waterneck. I have an idea for a 2nd option, but not sure if it'll work yet.


I don't know of any need for the OEM dash, it just has a 'multiplex' input so it gets some engine data (IE: temperature, A/T gear position) from the ECU. That way they didn't need to use a second temp sensor, or run more wires for the A/T. According to the diagrams from Bill, tachometer has its own input from a tach output on the ECU. Also the CEL has a seperate output.

Andrew

well there ya go.... told you there was a clever person :P

[Sam-Q]

so any tips on how to adapt a mechanical cable to the Aisin 6 speed box?

[ke_70]

hmmm gunna be interesting making one of them :S

is it as simple as using a worm drive gear from a w5x and cable from a w5x box?

[Anthony]

any W, R or C (fwd corollas) driven gear will work in the 6 speed, matching gear starts and ratios aside :)

Yeah the DBW system is half cable as a failsafe, Toyota treaded carefully in to this field. Didn't help in the end though. THis makes integrating it fairly easy as you dont need a sensor on the pedal etc.

For the tach booster Clay, I would suggest modding the tacho board to reduce its operation voltage as Andrew suggested. Theres a how to floating around. Alternatively, witzls circuit from toymods works pretty well.

[assassin10000]

^ what he said. Use the W5x mechanical drive in the transmission end. The end of the most toyota mechanical speedo cables is exactly the same. For instance my AE86 cable fits the W58 drive with no modifications.

Andrew

[Sam-Q]

so I can use bits from the FWD corollas? neat because they are a whole lot easier to come by than supra boxes.

Now I have a pic:

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/2/5/2/60946.jpg

Here is my guesses:

1- off the bottom outlet pipe to the heater core and one side of the throttle link? dunno about the other connection on the top

2- Oil return

3 and 4 the same? going to the throttle and the heater flow control tap and then the heater core?


Not that I want to do this conversion for a very long time but I am curious. It doesn't look all that hard to do.

So anyone have an opinions on shortening the bottom of the sump a little?

[ke_70]

what part of the sump sam?

you can cut a hole lot of the alloy bit and drop the motor atleast 20mm more. drops the sump pan extremly low though.
theres now alot of room to widen the pan alot either.

id love to here what other have to say about it as i want to drop my motor alittle more because it will foul on the tunnel when i move the shifter forward.

[ke_70]

whats that plug to the left of no.2?

[Anthony]

I see a battery terminal to the left of 2???

Thats pretty much right Sam. 3 and 4 are the coolant supplies to throttle (anti icing) and heater. 1 is the common coolant return rail from those two. 2 is an oil drain. I am currently working on a new rear housing that is much lower in profiles as I find this to be a big part of the puzzle in fitment.

Is that your engine??

[ke_70]

woops i ment 4

[assassin10000]

You meant 2? Or meant 4?

To the 'left' of 4 is the RF frequency suppressor, it's connected to the ign coils negative wire.

Andrew

[Andy San]

Another quick question,

If I block off 4 and 3

can I remove 1 from the back of the water pump and not cause any problems?

[assassin10000]

You could. I'm not too sure how that will affect the cooling system/cylinder head flow though.

Andrew

[4.5AG]

I see a battery terminal to the left of 2???

Thats pretty much right Sam. 3 and 4 are the coolant supplies to throttle (anti icing) and heater. 1 is the common coolant return rail from those two. 2 is an oil drain. I am currently working on a new rear housing that is much lower in profiles as I find this to be a big part of the puzzle in fitment.

Is that your engine??
Ant, how are you going with the new housing?
Is it available for sale yet?
Also if I'm using quads and no heater core, can I join 4 and 1 together using a u shape hose and also can I divert # 3 hose to pipe no 1

[fantapants]

thats how i did mine 4.5

[Celica RA45]

yes, yes and yes ,was using a gemini hose that has the perfect u bend for that purpose and another hose on the plenum,for it to come back around

[ehendrikd]

Hi everyone

Just have a question about the 3SGE Beams tailshaft and the YR22 Tarago F-series diff, does the tailshaft bolt directly to the diff flange? Or would there be modifications needed.

Cheers

[70XIN]

The tailshaft should bolt directly on (as the altezza also has an F-series diff) - but the lengths should be way off :)

[ehendrikd]

No worries, thank you for the confirmation. I had assumed this was the case and wanted to double check.

[ke_70]

yeah cant imagine the lengths would matchup.

what tailshaft are you talking about? altezza or tarago?
the 6sp will be the same spline output as a w series

[ehendrikd]

It is the Altezza tailshaft, and will be using the 6 speed.

[ehendrikd]

Hi again everyone

I have a further question regarding aftermarket 3SGE Beams headers, would anyone know if there is enough clearance for off the shelf aftermarket SXE10 headers to fit an AE86 conversion? Or would custom headers be the only option. I can't seem to find any usable dimension figures for various headers.

Cheers

[Celica RA45]

i just sold a set to ke_ 70 and i have the sister set here as well .and im only down the road have a look at clays last page or ke _70 to see the headers in the AE86 rides

[Major Clod]

Does anyone know if there is a difference in dimensions between the TRD 3 Piece race headers vs the TRD Road Headers? Both look similar in terms of layout, though obviously the road version is all welded together... I'm just wondering if the lengths and diameters of the primaries/secondaries/etc are the same?

Reason I ask is the race headers seem to be discontinued, whereas the road headers are still available...

[ehendrikd]

i just sold a set to ke_ 70 and i have the sister set here as well .and im only down the road have a look at clays last page or ke _70 to see the headers in the AE86 rides

Thank you for the reply Glenn, your headers do indeed look the business. However, do you do a 4-2-1 version? I would be looking to have a wide usable torque range.

Cheers

[Major Clod]

It is the Altezza tailshaft, and will be using the 6 speed.

The Altezza diff that came with my halfcut had what appeared to be a G series flange which was 60mm square, this is a different pattern to all other F series diffs I've used (which are 55mm square if I recall)

So no, your Altezza tailshaft probably won't bolt up to the YR22 diff - but seriously this is the least of your worries as the tailshaft will be completely different lengths on both pieces and you'll need to get a new one fabbed up anyway.

You'll need to either get a 60mm square flange and put it on your YR22 diff ( diff rebuild time ) or the much easier option of finding a tailshaft with a flange that matches your YR22, and hand that to whoever is going to be making your new tailshaft.

[ehendrikd]

Thank you for the clarification. I had also read that the YR22 diff housing has a G-series sized nose, so this would make sense.

[Celica RA45]

sorry havnt got any 4 ,2 into 1 at the moment as i have found the 4 into 1s is much more better for gas flow etc
the trd race pipes are for hi comp pistons and big cams quad throttles etc major clod, and the others that they sell seem to snap on the header flange as my mate has had these welded up 9 times now and the facing plate also buckles being stainless

[ke_70]

heres the massaging to the body i had to do to fit glens headers. (other half is off getting welded atm)
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/2/2/1/71451.jpg

this is where it hits in relation to the manifold itself.
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/2/2/1/71452.jpg

you welcome to buy my old manifold that i made...:P

[Celica RA45]

clay you could have straighten them up a bit then cut the merge and reweld .i see what the problem is and my motor is 10mm off the fire wall as well
so where the four change direction just before the merge they should have been straight and would that have fixed your problem

[Major Clod]

Glenn, do you know the approximate lengths of the primary and secondary pipes on your TRD headers?

[Bozu]

Hi guys,

I've been doing some research on a 3sge beams conversion in my ADM Levin and this topic is VERY helpfull because it contains A LOT of information.
Saying this could you guys have a look at the overview I made below to see if I'm missing parts of the build and answer some of the questions I have?
I'm trying to make clear overview of all the info in this thread and everything involded with this build.

My starting point is to place a stock 3sge beams in in the most 'ideal' position, whatever this position might be.

Issues regarding placement of the engine when trying to maintain original weight distribution and 'easy' access for servicing:
- Clearance with firewall, it isn't quite clear to me if there are any modifications needed or not?
- Clearance stock 3sge beams plenum with brake master cylinder and brake booster, isn't really an issue because it just clears with normal positioning of the engine?
- Clearance stock 3sge beams plenum with clutch master cylinder/reservoir, solution is to mount a remote reservoir.
- Clearance stock 3sge beams sump with steering rack, easiest solution would be to grind some of the webbing of? Most expensive solution is a dry-sump.
- Clearance with radiator, I've got an hyundai excel radiator so this should clear the engine? including fans?
- Custom engine mounts needed, can be bought by someone here on the forum?
- Custom swaybar needed to clear the sump when normally positioning the engine?
- Custom exhaust manifold? Not quite clear if a complete new manifold is needed or just the connection to the rest of the exhaust?
- Clearance with bonnet, webbing bonnet needs to be cut when having black cover on engine.
- No modifications needed to crossmember, also doesn't have to be lowered?

Issues regarding fuelsystem:
- Currently running standard 4AGE fuelsystem with a 4AGTE set-up, probably good idea to upgrade fuel pump because of 2.0L capacity instead of 1.6L, or not necessary?
- Need extra return line?

Issues regarding gearbox:
- Currently running a W57 gearbox mounted to AE101 4AGTE, I'm assuming this doesn't directly mounts up to the 3sge beams.
- Custom bellhousing needed, is this available somewhere or do I have to get this made myself?
- Is there any difference between the W58 and W57 gearbox other then the ratios? Because I can probably get a W58 adaptor plate to fit a 3sge beams.
- Otherwise if I can't get the adaptor plate do I have to use a 3Y bellhousing?
- Do the tailshaft/gearbox mounts have be modified because of different placement of engine and different adaptor plate?
- Using a W5# gearbox on a 3sge beams creates a problem with the spigot shaft? A double row spigot or the spigot has to be extended.
- Can I use a 3sge beams clutch with the W57 box?
- I can use the 3sge beams startermotor but I need an adaptor to fit it to the W57 gearbox?

Issues regarding electronics and wiring 3sge beams to stock AE86 dash cluster:
- I only need the engine loom of the 3sge right? Or do I need the body loom as well?
- 3sge beams ECU has to be used to be able to run the dual vvt-i and fly-by wire throttle, or as a more expensive option an aftermarket ECU.
- Utilizing the fly-by-wire throttle; The throttle body has 2 sensors one for pedal position (using standard style cable attachment) and a second for butterfly position (controlled by a motor) It's all integrated in the throttle body itself and I just have to find a cabel that fits (or make one) the rest is controlled by the ECU.
- Tacho: modify circuit board to lower voltage or run a tacho booster?
- Speedo: Can stay the same as I'm not changing gearbox
- Oil pressure sender: Needs to be adapted to fit 3sge beams

I'm aware that this is a lot of info but I'm trying to make this more clear for me (and hopefully for others as well)
Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to get everything handed to me on a platter by letting you guys do all the work and not do any research myself.
However there are some things that are still not quite clear after my research and I would really appreciate it if you guys could comment on this to help me get in the right direction.

Thanks.

Bozu

[ke_70]

w-3s bellhousing are off a 2 or 3y tarago i think.

my motors probley in the most ideal location. any further back requires hitting the fire wall. any further down cutting of the sump will have to happen. my swaybar hits the sump, but im not sure if it will still hit when the suspention loaded and back on it wheels.

you might need minor tunnel reshaping.
you have to use some funky starter motor with a spacer, but this comes very close to the steering shaft. so i suggest finding the starter before you start mounting the motor.

buddypart where going to sell motor mounts but they've closed down and dont exist anymore...

[Bozu]

You have to use some funky starter motor with a spacer, but this comes very close to the steering shaft. so i suggest finding the starter before you start mounting the motor.

Buddypart where going to sell motor mounts but they've closed down and dont exist anymore...

What kind of funky starter motor? I think I heard something about a 20V? Can't I use the stock 3sge? Also on what side of the engine does it sit? Exhaust or intake side?

Is there another place to get the mounts? Or maybe get in contact with buddyparts for the design so I can make them myself?

[assassin10000]

I clearanced my sump, pushed it back as far as I could. Although I can't run a heater at the moment. Swaybar clears no problems, no firewall/tunnel mods needed if using the w-series. Need to build a bash plate though, sump is about 1.5" below crossmember.

Oil pressure sender works fine with stock AE86 gauge. Same output/signal, different connector.

BT Beams 3sg starter will not work with w5x housing. I think Anthony modifies AE101/AE111's to work.

Andrew

[Bozu]

And what about the loom? Do I only need the engine loom or do I need the body loom as well? I called a shop here in Perth and they said I need the complete wiring loom but I don't see why...

[ke_70]

i wouldn't even bother contacting jay/buddyparts.

you will need to add a return to. pump doesnt need to be anything amazing. but it needs to be just alittle bit better than a stock 4age pump. im using standed 1/4'' lines also. you'll need a desent adj regulator.

[Sam-Q]

the throttle has been covered in earlier posts, just manually control it.

Now the fuel rail is an interesting one, for the people who have done the conversion what have you done in regard to the returnless system? From what I hear it's too hard to get the original pump to work for some reason and it's better to just mod the original fuel rail to have a return line and regulator

[Major Clod]

This is for a conversion into an RA23 Celica, though it shouldn't differ for the AE86...


The fuel rail has a threaded bung at either end - I believe its a metric thread - can't remember the pitch - wasn't a problem though.

All I did was replace one of these bungs with a speedflow fitting - there was a -AN to Metric adaptor I used.

From the speedflow fitting I ran some hose to a SARD adjustable fuel reg.

Then from the fuel reg I just ran some more hose back to the factory fuel return hard line.



Super easy - no huge modifications just a matter of getting the right fittings.


As far as the fuel reg goes - don't hook it up to vacuum - just leave it as the Beams fuel pressure stays the same.

I believe 62psi is what you're after. Adjust the FRP until you hit that.



I used a Bosch 910 at the rear end with surge tank etc...

[ke_70]

jay had alot of trouble trying to setup a returnless setup. cant remember exactally what they struggled with, but i think the fuel got really hot.

and isn't 62psi pressure for a returnless setup? with a return its drops down to about 40psi doesn't it?

[Anthony]

yeah I just put a std toyota banjo inlet form a ze rail in one end (M12 x 1.25 i think youre after), used that as a return and ran an external nismo regulator at 55psi. worked fine.

[Major Clod]

The returnless setup in the Altezza just means that the pressure regulator is in the fuel pump, rather than at the fuel rail.

With the factory ECU at the factory tune, it is expecting 62psi at the injectors. Returnless or not if you're lowering the fuel pressure on the factory tune, you won't be getting the right amount of fuel in there.



I had the factory altezza fuel pump with my halfcut - I hooked it up and ran the engine on the fuel pump - measured the fuel pressure at the rail.

I then hooked up my Bosch pump with SARD regulator and adjusted until I had the same pressure at the rail. Engine runs perfectly.

Numerous street km's and quarter mile runs later no issues here.

[Sam-Q]

so just get a reg and run it at 62psi? easy as, thanks guys

[Bozu]

@ Anthony
I heard you can shed some more light on the starter motor issue?
What starter can I use on a beams+W57 combination? One from an AE101/AE111'? If so, could you tell me what has to be modified?

[assassin10000]

I think he modified the snout/mounting ears.

Andrew

[Bozu]

And what about the W57 to 3sge bellhousing?
ke_70 said I have to use a 2y or 3y bellhousing, which one is it? And what exactly has to be changed on the bellhousing? Bolt pattern on box side? or engine side? Or both?
Because I assume it isn't a straight bolt in.

Plus another, perhaps challenging, question for the tech experts...Apparently it is also possible to use a S1 bellhousing from a certain early model toyota (rwd or 4wd) has anyone heard of this before?

[Major Clod]

Is there any reason why people aren't just using the factory j160 6 spd? Unless you're going for some big power figures it should be plenty strong, and it certainly makes fitment straight forward.

[Bozu]

Depends on what you find straight forward, I believe the shifter position of the 6spd is way out of the original position.
My reason is that I already have a W57 under my car and prefer the gear ratios above the 6 speed.

But anyone that can help me with my questions?

[70XIN]

Is there any reason why people aren't just using the factory j160 6 spd? Unless you're going for some big power figures it should be plenty strong, and it certainly makes fitment straight forward.

Straightforward, if you're cool with tearing your trans tunnel up and making a new one (correct me if i'm wrong BEAMS kids).

[Major Clod]

The shifter is a remote one, and it has two mounting positions built in. Only takes 15 mins to swap and your shifter will be a good 2-3 inches forward.

I can't speak for you trans tunnel as mine is in a Ra23 celica, but my J160 fits into the same space as my old W50, and with moving the shifter above the stick is not significantly further back. The factory W50 was fairly tight to begin with and the j160 still fits, even with the motor crammed closer to the firewall.

The j160 is by no means a large gearbox, its quite comparable in size to the w series boxes. Perhaps people are confusing it with the v160 getrag 6 spd from the supra, which is a massive bastard. Bill Sherman has the auto altezza box under his Ae86, and the manual isn't really any different in size.

On the whole 3s to W series issue, there should be plenty of info on toymods, both the new and old forums, that could help you out.

[assassin10000]

It's 3/4Y BH out of the Tarago. Use the fork that comes with it, and a double row spigot bearing. The mods to it are all engine side, once you have the bellhousing in hand you'll see how it's off. Some welding and redrilling and your good to go.


To get the motor & trans to fit with NO modifications (& no hammering, in my case), it's easier to use the W58 which has a steeper bell housing profile that tucks into the stock tunnel nicely. Compared to the J160 which has a shallow profile and would require hammering OR a new tunnel, depending on how/where you mounted the motor and if you space the crossmember down. It's not a 'width' issue, it's the initial height coming directly back from the motor.

It can be done either way, even shoving the shifter to the forward position requires modification to get the shifter through the floor IIRC. At least, if you want to keep having your front swaybar. If you don't mind no front swaybar (or making a custom setup) then you'd be able to get the shifter up through the stock hole.

The guys that built this http://www.motoiq.com/magazine_articles/articletype/articleview/articleid/1913/motegi-racings-killer-ae86-corolla-gts.aspx did it that way from what I can see. And also according to a guy who talked to them at a show at TORC, they couldn't figure out how to make a stock swaybar work with the motor swap... :omg:.


Andrew

[Celica RA45]

cant understand the 52mm quad throttles .way too big for a std motor
i did some tests a couple of years ago with 3 different sets 1st set 45mm 2nd set 48mm and last set was 50mm
the best result was the 48mm up to 7600 rpm ,these were also much better than the black tops made .
the 48 made more torque and power over the 45mm every where
the 50mm start to over take the 48mm from 7600 rpm onwards

[Aram]

Hi guys,

First post for me but I've been reading here for a while now. :)
Great topic btw, lots of info that I have used!



To get the motor & trans to fit with NO modifications (& no hammering, in my case), it's easier to use the W58 which has a steeper bell housing profile that tucks into the stock tunnel nicely. Compared to the J160 which has a shallow profile and would require hammering OR a new tunnel, depending on how/where you mounted the motor and if you space the crossmember down. It's not a 'width' issue, it's the initial height coming directly back from the motor.

I modified the the subframe and have no issues with the tunnel whatsoever.
The engine sits in the bay with about 10mm clearance everywhere, also the firewall.
But I chose not to modify anything, if you want to balls out you could move the engine back 10/20mm, but then you would have to modify the firewall and make the shifter hole directly through the reinforcement beam in the interior.


It can be done either way, even shoving the shifter to the forward position requires modification to get the shifter through the floor IIRC. At least, if you want to keep having your front swaybar. If you don't mind no front swaybar (or making a custom setup) then you'd be able to get the shifter up through the stock hole.

I could not use the stock swaybar it was about 25mm short so I had one made.
But I still could not use the stock shifter hole, it is more than 50mm off.
So I don't think it is possible to use the stock hole unless you mount the engine through the radiator. :)

Aram.

[Bozu]

So I don't think it is possible to use the stock hole unless you mount the engine through the radiator. :)


What radiator are you running? You can fit a hyundai excel one which, IIRC, is thinner than the stock one

[ke_70]

an evo 6 is the radiator to use. its alittle tricky to mount into an ae86 but doable.

[Andy San]

or you can use the factory sprinter one, and modify the outlets on the motor slightly.

[Aram]

A guy in Holland uses a Volkswagen Santana radiator, maybe I will have one made, not sure yet. :)

[AJPS]

as for why some people dont use the j160 apart from tunnel

Cost - j160 about $1100

W57 with bellhousing and everything $500

Gearset availability etc

and also some motorsport categories not allowing 6 forward gears

[Anthony]

@ Anthony
I heard you can shed some more light on the starter motor issue?
What starter can I use on a beams+W57 combination? One from an AE101/AE111'? If so, could you tell me what has to be modified?

sorry I missed this. My own car ran the 6 speed so I just ran a stock altezza starter. for W box version i found a compact solution to be a 20V starter as mentioned, with one of the two mounting ears cut off and rewelded another 30degrees or so around the base. not too hard to do with a bell there as a jig to tack it up. At that stage 20V starters were literally laying on the ground (I was wrecking a lot of FF front cuts for engines etc) so they were a logical choice. 7AFE etc should be similar I think. It's the high torque starter with the two thin external bolts running the length of the motor. I've found these to be the best of the 3 common toyota starter motor styles.

[Andy San]

What are some other alternatives to use as rubber engine mounts instead of the factory Altezza ones? Mine both tore apart out after one meeting, and the fluid out of them went all over everything. Someone was saying that supra ones are a similar size and have the pins in the same spot, but have a complete metal casing around them to stop them splitting.

Any suggestions?

EDIT:
something like these would be perfect (yes I know they are TRD ones):
http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/supra_2165_19350713

[takai]

What are some other alternatives to use as rubber engine mounts instead of the factory Altezza ones? Mine both tore apart out after one meeting, and the fluid out of them went all over everything. Someone was saying that supra ones are a similar size and have the pins in the same spot, but have a complete metal casing around them to stop them splitting.

Any suggestions?




These are the JZA80 VVTi ones that i was telling you about.
http://gallery2.plebeians.net/d/27152-1/IMG_0415.JPG
http://gallery2.plebeians.net/d/27149-1/IMG_0414.JPG

Same sizing as MX83 mounts.


1998 Supra Engine Mount (12360-46111)
75mm from top to bottom, both ends are parallel

[Major Clod]

I used mounts from a Holden Adventura (v8)

They are similar to the factory Altezza (rubber cylinder style) except are taller.

This helped me get clearance over the KE70 crossmember (in my RA23 Celica)

The mounts attach to the factory cast alloy mounts on the engine side of things, then they sit on top of some steel channel welded to the top of the KE70 crossmember (about 20-30mm high)

http://users.tpg.com.au/celica23/toyota/celica91.JPG

[Andy San]

Are those Holden ones fluid filled? How much taller are they? I am guessing they have a single stud on the bottom of them

[Major Clod]

Not fluid filled as far as I'm aware.

Single stud top and bottom - from memory the bottom stud is offset so I slotted the holes in the crossmember width ways - and by rotating the mounts I can probably move the engine forwards or backwards over a 30-40mm range which helped for fine tuning the position.

Can get a measurement on height for you later on - I don't have the stock mount measurements on me any more as its been a few years since the conversion.

[Celica RA45]

andy im using 2 s engine mounts and brackets and they bolt up ok to the altezza motor and i havnt had any problems these have been in the car since 99

[Andy San]

andy im using 2 s engine mounts and brackets and they bolt up ok to the altezza motor and i havnt had any problems these have been in the car since 99

Do they mount downwards like the altezza ones? I don't want to have to completely remount the thing, just replace the rubbers.


Not fluid filled as far as I'm aware.

Single stud top and bottom - from memory the bottom stud is offset so I slotted the holes in the crossmember width ways - and by rotating the mounts I can probably move the engine forwards or backwards over a 30-40mm range which helped for fine tuning the position.

Can get a measurement on height for you later on - I don't have the stock mount measurements on me any more as its been a few years since the conversion.

I have the original ones to compare to, just really need a height measurement, because they sound like they will work well otherwise.

[AJPS]

what after market cams have people used and stay with VVT or not?

[Sam-Q]

Bozu, please read the older posts in this thread, I will edit this space shortly

[Bozu]

@ Sam-Q; No offence but I've read this thread a couple of times all the way through but weren't able to get answers to my questions, if I had I wouldn't have posted them.
Anyway i'll go through all the posts again then.

@Assassin10000: Hmm I've obviously missed this remark, so basicaly you're saying I'll have a problem with any starter?

[Bozu]

Sorry guys, just read through it again and read the posts. Wondering how I missed this before..

I did find a post that said CelicaRA45 is using a custom 2s bellhousing with a longer spigot bearing into the back of the crank.
It might be possible to use the 2s then? Anyone knows what is custom on this bellhousing?

[assassin10000]

Yeah, he swapped the starter portion to the intake side.

Andrew

[Bozu]

So if I understand correctly it basically comes down to this;

Using 2S bellhousing, clutch fork and clutch slave:
- Pro’s; You don’t have to modify the bellhousing,
- Con’s; You need to modify the oil drain in the block in order to clear the starter motor or relocate the startermotor, puts starter and clutch slave on exhaust side of engine.

Using 3Y bellhousing, clutch fork and clutch slave:
- Pro’s; Puts starter and clutch slave cylinder on drivers side
- Con’s; You need to slot one hole on the bellhousing, you need to make an adapter to fit a 22re starter motor or re-position one of the ears on a 20V starter

Am i correct in saying both set-ups allows you to use the altezza flywheel, clutch, release bearing in combination with a double row spigot bearing?(to solve the spigot shaft issue)
If so I can also choose from the Altezza aftermarket options?

[Andy San]

that is all correct,

the 3y option is arguably better, as it is easier to modify a starter than the problems associated with oil drains/clutch forks etc fouling on the exhaust, as well as the associated heat issues.

[Bozu]

I've been doing some searching on the web and I was wondering if there would there be any advantages over turbo'ing a 3sge beams from the rs200 instead of going for a 3sgte straight away.
One advantage I can think of is the dual vvt-i but maybe there are more? Like better engine design or oil squirters?

[fantapants]

also the altezza flywheel has the spigot IN the flywheel, so no need for double size anythings...

[Major Clod]

Hey, just a quick question for you guys with Beams in your cars.

How level does your engine engine sit in terms of front/back tilt when you have it mounted?

Eg. Is the center of your crank pulley the same height from the ground as the centre of the gearbox rear?

Would there be any adverse affects if the engine was tiling rearwards a few degrees (eg 50mm higher at the front than rear of the gearbox)

I guess it's mainly tailshaft angles that would concern, I don't think oil drain would be a problem.

The sump is so low in these things and in my situation (non-86) it would be nice to get a bit more clearance if I can just mount the motor slightly higher at the front. I can't move the gearbox higher though so it would be tilted.

[AJPS]

mine is mounted with a slight lean, not sure on exact mm's but its not much

[assassin10000]

A slight tilt won't hurt anything.

Andrew

[Celica RA45]

my alloy pan sits 5mm above my ta23 xmember and steel pan is 130 off the ground

[Bozu]

I'm looking for a startermotor that can be used with my 3Y bellhousing and aftermarket 3sge beams flywheel (teeth match), after doing some research I was under the impression a FWD 4age 20v Blacktop startermotor could be used but i just got one and the bolt holes don't line up with the bolt holes on the bellhousing...One of the bolt holes is off by about 15mm. Should I modify this or is there a different startermotor which is better to use? One with bolt holes that line up and teeth that match?

Any help is appreciated!

[fantapants]

starter motor stuff is dealt with earlier, but to recap, the 20v starters need modding, the tab moved, or a starter motor adaptor like brad and i used... either solutions are in our threads.

[Bozu]

I know the startermotor has to be modified but from what I've read in this topic and in your topic (don't know which topic is brad's) I was under the impression one of the ears on the back of the startermotor had to be adjusted/repositioned to clear the steering rack. Hence why I thought the mounting holes woud line up.

Apparently, and correct me if I'm wrong, it's one of the ears with a bolt hole in it that needs to be adjusted.

Reason why I'm asking is I want to get all the parts ready for when I get the engine and it's obviously not completely clear to me what exactly needs to be modified. Perhaps you have a picture of it?

Also with back of the startermotor I mean the side on which the gear is NOT.

[Aram]

Do you guys have any pics of your build, would be nice to see some of your work. :)

This is mine sofar, it is my old chassis atm, just for trial fitting, so not to ruin the paintjob on the new shell. :)

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c281/Tranquill/Hachi Roku/01240.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c281/Tranquill/Hachi Roku/IMG_5852.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c281/Tranquill/Hachi Roku/IMG_5853.jpg

Front subframe:

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c281/Tranquill/Hachi Roku/IMG_7753.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c281/Tranquill/Hachi Roku/IMG_7754.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c281/Tranquill/Hachi Roku/IMG_7755.jpg

and nearly finished gearbox subframe:

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c281/Tranquill/Hachi Roku/IMG_7901.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c281/Tranquill/Hachi Roku/IMG_7904.jpg

[Aram]

No one?

[Sam-Q]

well I like it

[assassin10000]

Sam, he was looking for pics of the other people's beams swap.

Andrew

[Celica RA45]

ok if any 1 is going to use the beams engine mounts ,beware they tear very easily ,you are better to use 2 s engine mounts and brackets ,have had a few guys with std road cars up at track meets with broken weeping engine mounts

[ke_70]

thats a pretty cool gearbox crossmember!

you'll find my thread in my sig.

[Bozu]

ok if any 1 is going to use the beams engine mounts ,beware they tear very easily ,you are better to use 2 s engine mounts and brackets ,have had a few guys with std road cars up at track meets with broken weeping engine mounts

Just so I get the right set-up. With brackets you mean the ones that bolt onto the engine right? The mounts obviously bolt onto the brackets but what about the crossmember?
Does this need a lot of modifications when using the 2s engine mounts?

[Celica RA45]

its the rubber engine mounts that are no good

[Bozu]

Yeah I get that but I was wondering which part you meant by brackets, but I'm assuming those are the ones that bolt on to the engine.

[Aram]

KE70, I'll check that out, thanks! :)

CRA45, I am not going to track my car, maybe a driftday here and there, but it will be 99.9% street use, do you think they will survive that?
If not which mount could I use that would not require any alteration to the subframes, because I'm kinda done with working on them hehehe.

[fantapants]

sorry for late reply.

brad is steroidchickens. Has more pics on his build. we didnt modify our starters at all, used a plate to space out a 22r starter motor the right distance. Worked perfectly. His car has now been bought by someone who hasnt mentioned it here i dont believe, pm if you want their details, he may be able to confirm details and get better information for you.


I know the startermotor has to be modified but from what I've read in this topic and in your topic (don't know which topic is brad's) I was under the impression one of the ears on the back of the startermotor had to be adjusted/repositioned to clear the steering rack. Hence why I thought the mounting holes woud line up.

Apparently, and correct me if I'm wrong, it's one of the ears with a bolt hole in it that needs to be adjusted.

Reason why I'm asking is I want to get all the parts ready for when I get the engine and it's obviously not completely clear to me what exactly needs to be modified. Perhaps you have a picture of it?

Also with back of the startermotor I mean the side on which the gear is NOT.

[Tim.duncan]

Cough..* he he

How heavy is a 3s over a 4age?
The reason I ask is I'm considering what front spring rate to select.
Do you need to run a heavier spring or can we just go off all the info with ae86 running a 4 a?

[ke_70]

i don't think they're really that much heavier. somthing like 8kg?

[Tim.duncan]

Was under the car last night and the sump sits fairly low. Any one running a bash plate?

[Anthony]

I didnt bother and it survived. Even went to some rather nasty places like straddling the outside ripplestrip turn 5 @ QR.

[ke_70]

how low was your ant?

i got a nice bit of 10mm ally to put on mine. there's not really much to mount to though. i was going to put a length of flat bar between the casor rods to mount too.

[Aram]

Mounted my engine/box into the new chassis this week, this is how my lever sticks through:

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/6/9/2/0/203406.jpg

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/6/9/2/0/203408.jpg

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/6/9/2/0/203410.jpg

No, massaging the tunnel anywhere.

[s14seriesII]

this is what i did with my starter motor.. its a 100kw4age starter,
one side welded up and new bolt hole drilled and tapped.. this is for use with a larger diamter (turbo size) flywheel which could be the same diameter as the beams ? but is bigger than a normal 3sge flywheel...

i also added a spacer and loacting plate ( its cut out of a 4ac backing plate) welded to the 2s engine backing plate in the correct location for the starter meshing.. this would be the same deal as the 4y/3y bellhousing and backing plates as they have the same measurments as the 2s.. just on the other side

pics.. crap pictures but im sure you'll all work it out

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/1/0/1/4/41151.jpg

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/1/0/1/4/41150.jpg

[ke_70]

hey does anyone know the size of the beams injectors?

[AJPS]

365cc?

[assassin10000]

^ yep.

Andrew

[ke_70]

discuss. looks abit messy to me but what do i know...

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/2/2/1/205230.jpg

[ke_70]

if i install a w-series worm drive and speedo cable into my 6sp will it throw off the calibration?

basically if i get a w58 speedo drive setup from somthing that has a 3.9 rear end and put it in my 6sp will it read right or will the different gearbox ratios put it out?

[s14seriesII]

gearbox ratios are irrelevant in regards to speedo drive...
speedo drive basicly only works off tailshaft speed, (gearbox output shaft) so the only variables are diff ratio and wheel diametere,

so in theory if the drive gear thats fitted to the output shaft of the t50 or w series fits the j160 as well as the speedo cable drive then yes it will be correct.. otherwise you just need to keep the tooth count the same on both the speedo drive and driven gears..

hope this helps

[ke_70]

right thats how i thought it worked.

thanks mark!

[Tim.duncan]

i need the standard cam specs for the blacktop Beams 3S
any one got them? or a link? struggling to find them...

[Aram]

I need the camshaft specs of the Beams engine, can someone help me with this?
Lift, duration etc.
I googled but coulnd't find anything.

[Aram]

Noone? :(

[s14seriesII]

I think google is going to have to be your friend on this one.. The only other option is if someone like kelford cams have measured some stock ones up before they have made bigger replacements.. So maybe ring Kelfords and ask ?

[fantapants]

check the mr2 board, it has a lot of good tech information on these, also the altezza forum from nz is a great resource for these engines.

pm ra45 celica??? i think it is, his name is glenn and he knows an absolute truckload about these engines.

[Aram]

Ok thanks guys, I'll have a look over there and try to contact this guy. :)

[Celica RA45]

from memory when i did this 10 years ago inlet was 264 and exhaust was 256 because at 50 thou they were like 226 and 220 about 12mm of lift and 11on the exhaust
toda does a 268 and 264 that runs on a std ecu hope this helps

[driftke70]

3s club ahoy,
in case you were wondering, there is still enough room to drink tea in your engine bay after fitting a 3s.
22722

[Jordain]

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/521778.jpg

BEAMS > KE10 Engine bay...

It fits, with a KE20 crossmember with a KE70 rack added to it, Quad throttles and solid mounted... OH and extensive firewall modification :soldier:

LEEN conversion. Here's a few pic's on what I'm going to be sorting out in the next couple of weeks.


http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/521779.jpg

Brings the SXE10 shifter into the stock T50 spot... Handy in a KE10, not to sure about Ae86/Ke70's :piggy:


Read through this thread a few times, But what are you guy's doing for the Gearbox SXE10 mount..... I don't have the stock rubber mount, Where can I get one or what's an alternative?

[Sam-Q]

whats the gearbox conversion cost

[Jordain]

Depending on the exchange rate, but roughly $260 AUD at this current exchange rate... the $260 gets you the machined up top housing, You have to modify the selector shaft yourself... EMD or wirecutting tool or something. I'm defiantly going to be doing it though, as I don't want to have to do this....

Friend of mine.. KE10 with a Beams in it... although he kept the box original and decided to chop the central crossbrace of the floorpan out. I believe it works, just I'd rather get the shifter in a better spot anyway and it's neater not to chop the brace to bits.

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/521785.jpg

[t-nol]

My car currently has the ST20v, with power steering (http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=power+steering) and air con. Whats your opinion or advice on installing the Beams with the air can and p/steer too.
I can get custom a/c lines and s/pump lines made, but what about pressure differences from one pump to another?
How will that affect the steering.
Can i install a restrictor in the line to hold pressure at the rack desired level, or is this all going to be too much trouble, and untidy in the bay?
The factory Beams setup isn't the cleanest bay to start with, and i'm after a very clean and tidy engine bay.

[s14seriesII]

All power steering systems run at the same 0-1500 psi.. Flow might be marginal difference but not worth mentioning, same with a/c they're all the same just different cosmetically

[Aram]

Hi guys, I have a question.
Which speedometer cable do you use on the Altezza 6 speed box?
I can't switch them because of this:

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/6/9/2/0/296512.jpg

Greets,

Aram.

[70XIN]

Aram, it's much easier to just buy a different speedo drive, your AE86 cable will bolt straight in:

Any of the larger "toyota 5-speed" boxes (W55 from coronas etc, W56 from hilux, W57 from 1G soarers etc, W58 from supras etc) have the right type of speedo gear. Just make sure you buy a cable driven one, as some of the later W58's have electric drives that are the same as that 6-speed one.

They will attach to your gearbox the same way a T50 drive does - with one of those locking tabs and a bolt (like you can see in the background of your picture). Your ae86 cable will screw in with no modifications needed. Your speedo might be off, depending on what gear is on the drive :)

[Aram]

Ok Seamus, I will look for that!
Thanks for your answer. :-)

[Panda BVB700]

might be the wrong spot to ask but by any chance does a 1g-fe six speed fit behind the beams my guess would be no but i thought i might ask some people who would know alot more

[Anthony]

bell housings (half the gearbox with a J160) are different. Shifter is in a different location but this is an easy swap.