Skyline Brakes on AE86, will they fit in 15 rims?

[PRIMRK]

Have been looking at brake upgrades for my 86 and like the R32/33 brakes.

Some one has mentioned it before but i haven't been able to find any one who has used them.

Is there a kit out there?
Will they fit in 15" rims?

[haveaparty]

i was thinkin the same thing to do on my keto, i was just gunna measure the breaks and wheels and if seemed as if it would fit just trial and error until i got it,

[xero]

depends on which calipers you use.

there was a kit from japan that used R32 GTR calipers and discs which fit under 15" wheels. the discs being 300mm, but most likely as they 4 piston you would be very limited in what wheels you could use due to the caliper to wheel back face clearence.
i currently have a hoppers stoppers kit which uses a AU falcon caliper which isnt very tall and fairly flat against the back of the wheel so i have no issues with clearence or wheel offset.

you also have to factor in the weight of the caliper and discs, and how much its gonna cost to put it all together.

also R33 brakes wont fit under 15" wheels.

[marvis]

NA R33 will fit under some.

[PRIMRK]

the NA R33 ones where only 2 pot front and 1 pot rear, so i want to go for some off a turbo set up, the calipers will cost $500 for the R32 GTR ones and thats 2 x front and 4 x rear so i can have the hand break on a separate line.

The R32 calipers are all aluminium so they will prob be lighter or at least even in weight to the current ones on the car.

The problem (AKA the pricey bit) will be getting at hat made up to set the rotor as far in as possible to allow for rim selection.

How do 16" rims fit on sprinters? so far the cars i have seen running them have had massive modification to allow them in or the car sits up at stock ride height.

[Gunner]

early r32 gtr (non brembo) are the same (i think) as r33 gtst ones, and are half the price (I paid $300 for reco'd items).

[PRIMRK]

they are not the same, but are almost the same size, very very close though.

[sundee]

Ok lets clear some stuff up here!

All Nissan R series callipers are Alloy. (just not sure about R32 GTR)
Dont use NA crap as their not 4 piston. only 2 piston
R32 gtst are 280mm front and 296 rear, R32 GTR are 296mm all round ( R32 gtst have small fins on the surface, R32 GTR are Smooth)
R33 gtst are 296mm front and rear, R33 gtst are smooth finish ( nissan must have changed the grade of alloy after R32 gtst to one with different/better cooling properties)
R34 GTR are 324mm front and 296 rear

Also dont be fooled... if your looking at R32 gtst callipers, look at 300zx turbo, they are exactly the same.

R33 gtst 4pot callipers and 296mm rotors DO FIT under 15' wheels! BUT i cant vouch for every 15' wheel out their obviously

I purchased R33 gtst callipers with 2nd hand pads and rotors for $300
Rears are all the same. Dont be fooled by "GTR" their exactly the same as GTST unless Brembo.
I brought 2 sets of R series rear calipers at $150 a set with pads.

its all been done...

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/showthread.php/22850-SD-Garage-86

ill get pics of fronts up... gotta find the camera.

the Skyline rotors are heavier then stock 86.. but the calipers are lighter at only 3.3kg a piece
you don't actually add that much weight for the braking performance gain.

more info on rear:

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/showthread.php/21259-SD-Garage-R-amp-D-Page

[AJPS]

Brembo means they came from Vspec GTR

R32 GTR are alloy and whilst still being sumitomo run a different disc (from factory) cross drilled with MUCH thinner walls.

Much lighter disc, the main draw back of nissan brake set ups

[PRIMRK]

Ah! I knew I had seen a twin caliper set up befor. I've got a f series tarago diff this kit will bolt onto that yeh?!?

Have you got the r32 4 pots on the front?

[racsov]

i had r32 gtst brakes behind my 15' ssr meshies with 25mm spacers. the problem isnt the diameter its the design of the back of the wheel. i got sick of having to use spacers so i put on r33 non turbo brakes. 4 pots are overkill on most things anyway and are just a wank thing, my 2 pots with a proper compound pad work better then the 4 pot did with bendix ultimates.

[sundee]

Ah! I knew I had seen a twin caliper set up befor. I've got a f series tarago diff this kit will bolt onto that yeh?!?

Have you got the r32 4 pots on the front?

Yep bolts onto F diffs.
And running R33 gtst calipers up front.
I'm using st141 struts... Makes this conversion a piece of cake.

[takai]

i had r32 gtst brakes behind my 15' ssr meshies with 25mm spacers. the problem isnt the diameter its the design of the back of the wheel. i got sick of having to use spacers so i put on r33 non turbo brakes. 4 pots are overkill on most things anyway and are just a wank thing, my 2 pots with a proper compound pad work better then the 4 pot did with bendix ultimates.

I love that in one simple post you let the rest of the forum know how uninformed you are.

To add to this, SOME of the the 300ZX and Silvia calipers are cast iron (im led to believe that they were all cast iron from factory, but since then most have been replaced with Skyline counterparts) but in the same design as the Skyline alloy counterparts.

The biggest problem with the entire setup tends not to be the diameter, but how much the caliper protrudes over the front of the disc hat:
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/3/0/4/0/58028.jpg

[sundee]

Takai is right, the main issue is caliper protrusion.
On 86 struts a custom bracket is needed, you can get them off yahoo Jp, sorry don't know who makes them. Not cheap either ( I'll post a pic later)
BUT, if you use the ST141 or MX struts you and some other conversion bits you can eliminate most of the protrusion issue.
All Nissan R series calipers bolt straight up to these struts, and you use a falcon rotor 296mm, the rotor sits outboard on the hub, this adds 7mm then I needed a 5mm slip on to clear my wheels, so only a slight increase of 12mm track each side.

If your doing circuit work big brakes are a must! Don't care what anyone says

[takai]

Yeah, means its a little bit better. Doesnt protrude as much, but still by about 5-10mm.
http://gallery2.plebeians.net/d/29757-1/IMG_1042_s.jpg

Ill take a better photo tonight when i pull apart the fronts on that.

[Andy San]

bendix ultimates.

I can see why your brakes weren't working when you were running the 4 pots

[takai]

Yup, its like comparing apples and turds.

[sundee]

I can see why your brakes weren't working when you were running the 4 pots

yep thought that... didn't want to say it. haha

here are some pics of the R33 setup on 86 struts

As you can see the Bracket is pretty insane!

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/4/8/5/58039.jpg
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/4/8/5/58040.jpg
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/4/8/5/58041.jpg

The MX guys use a hub ring to centre the rotor, BUT on the ST141 hubs the rotor fits snug over the hub mounting face.. perfect.

[PRIMRK]

After measuring the r33 brakes I was fairly sure that they would fit and couldnt understand why everyone said that they wont, good to have someone clear up that it was the face of the rim that would get in the way.

[racsov]

well at least you didnt missinterprit what i said lol. beleive it or not im not actually that fucking stupid.

most people dont need 4pots cause most people here have light non turbo cars and just want to have a sweet parts list. if you actually have a decent amount of power or do some kind of class racing yeah, but otherwise its just not really neccesary when you can get decent braking performance out of a more wheel friendly caliper with a rotor with a diameter only slightly smaller then a 4 pot. i kinda see it the same way as fitting 15x10 superlites to an eight six.

alot of people i see who bolt on the bigger brakes cause they think they are better just use shitty pads and fluid anyway.

level now?

[AJPS]

well at least you didnt missinterprit what i said lol. beleive it or not im not actually that fucking stupid.

most people dont need 4pots cause most people here have light non turbo cars and just want to have a sweet parts list. if you actually have a decent amount of power or do some kind of class racing yeah, but otherwise its just not really neccesary when you can get decent braking performance out of a more wheel friendly caliper with a rotor with a diameter only slightly smaller then a 4 pot. i kinda see it the same way as fitting 15x10 superlites to an eight six.

alot of people i see who bolt on the bigger brakes cause they think they are better just use shitty pads and fluid anyway.

level now?

100% agree

[takai]

Caliper overhang:
http://gallery2.plebeians.net/d/31223-1/IMG_1274_s.jpg

Thats with the BA Falcon rotor, which is 10mm deeper. Add 10mm to the overhang for the stock Nissan setup.

[gslrallysport]

4 pots are overkill on most things anyway and are just a wank thing, my 2 pots with a proper compound pad work better then the 4 pot did with bendix ultimates.
I'm going to go against what everybody else here has said [Edit: Except AJPS], and say that I couldn't agree more. (Although your theory based around the use of Bendix Ultimates kinda blurs the credibility of what you've said...)

My favorite example of proving to people that you don't always need larger hardware (read: more unsprung weight) is Evo 4-9 rally cars, with 550 odd nm, anti-lag, brutal acceleration, and ALOT more weight than any AE86 is EVER going to way, don't exactly struggle with twin piston single sided opposed piston front calipers working ridiculously small 276x24mm rotors when used with the correct pad compound.

Another example is recently a very reputable workshop tested the twin pistons calipers that come on the Liberty GT, versus the 4 piston sumitomo calipers that come on the WRX (The exact same Skyline/300ZX calipers every here is talking about) and the twin piston, single sided sliding calipers on the GT out performed the 4 piston jobies...

So apparently, unlike alot of other people here, I certainly don't subscribe to the needing-the-most-pistons-possible theory when trying to get the most out of your brakes.

[Andy San]

Only problem with the single sided calipers is they spread open under hard braking and you end up with wedged pads and a shit pedal feel because once it has wedged the pads it will spread them every time once you stand on them and because they are worn so unevenly you need to keep replacing the pads to get your pedal feel back.

The other thing you interstate guys don't have is Mallala to drive on - worst track in Australia for brakes, when i went to eastern creek earlier in the year i could have got away with the standard calipers without a problem, but you cook them in 3 laps here

[PRIMRK]

As far as rim fitments for these r32/3 setups, i just had a chat with Retro Wheels (NSW) who bought the licence off Simmons to make all their 15" rims, they are able to custom make up any size offset rim and extend the center boss to give you the caliper clearance you need (up to 40mm i think), i figure this is more than enough to fit over skyline brakes (the guy i spoke to said that he had used GTR brakes on his sons celica and made the rims to fit over that), i also asked how much it is to make a custom design center and it was a fair price if a few people wanted to get together to make up some JDM style rims that where accessible in Australia, just a thought.

[sundee]

With The 15 x 10 superlite it has a decent spacing, but the issue with them and the caliper is not the spokes, it's the center mounting disc. That's what the caliper hits.

[racsov]

i never said bendix ultimate were good, they are shit, that was the whole point on what i was trying to say

[fantapants]

With The 15 x 10 superlite it has a decent spacing, but the issue with them and the caliper is not the spokes, it's the center mounting disc. That's what the caliper hits.

yeah i found this with my 296 rotors.... fit inside my 15's and 16s, but doesnt clear the mounting face on eaither

[takai]

296mm discs and wilwood caliper inside a 15" rim
http://gallery2.plebeians.net/d/31225-1/IMG_1275_s.jpg

Ill slap one of my spare R32 calipers in for giggles, but i doubt it will fit. The wheels are Simmons V4s, not exactly the best for caliper clearance.

[Dongaz]

What is the part number on that wilwood caliper?

[aaron]

I run 32 gtst calipers on 91 mr2 turbo rotors (280ish mm from memory). They fit under my 15s fine. I used custom backing spacers to set the mounting face in the factory location, skimmed off the nissan caliper lettering to clear my particular rims (just worked out) and custom caliper brackets obviously. However, this did lead to my ball joints rubbing against the inside of my rotors. Solved with smaller ball joints and rcas.

[Stain]

the NA R33 ones where only 2 pot front and 1 pot rear, so i want to go for some off a turbo set up, the calipers will cost $500 for the R32 GTR ones and thats 2 x front and 4 x rear so i can have the hand break on a separate line.

The R32 calipers are all aluminium so they will prob be lighter or at least even in weight to the current ones on the car.

The problem (AKA the pricey bit) will be getting at hat made up to set the rotor as far in as possible to allow for rim selection.

How do 16" rims fit on sprinters? so far the cars i have seen running them have had massive modification to allow them in or the car sits up at stock ride height.

I have a SS Works kit on my sprinter... Uses R32 4pot Calipers from memory (I bought it 2nd hand so dont have all the info about em).
They fit under most 15" rims, however there are a few that are tight... I'm using SSR MK3s atm and needed a 10mm slip on spacer to clear the brakes.

And as to the question of 16" rims, I used to have 16" Buddyclub P1s and didn't do any suspension/body mods to make em fit, car was pretty low, too...

http://stain.id.au/blue86/183-FanBlades.jpg

[xero]

Only problem with the single sided calipers is they spread open under hard braking and you end up with wedged pads and a shit pedal feel because once it has wedged the pads it will spread them every time once you stand on them and because they are worn so unevenly you need to keep replacing the pads to get your pedal feel back.

The other thing you interstate guys don't have is Mallala to drive on - worst track in Australia for brakes, when i went to eastern creek earlier in the year i could have got away with the standard calipers without a problem, but you cook them in 3 laps here

im interstater, and i can attest to how much of a barstid mallala is on brakes! granted it was only the micra, and i was taking it very easy on the brakes and it was still hard on them. the definately felt a bit spongy the next couple of days...

[MAGIC MAN]

15" wheels do clear, i use a 12" x 1.25" wilwood rotor and R32 gtr calipers on my car, i did need a wheel spacer to clear the back of the wheels but it still worked, and worked very well.

I think the biggest problem here is that when people are doing these brake swaps no one or very few at least are upgrading the master cylinder's, it took me three goes to get the correct size to use the brakes to the full potential. After that the braking performance was amazing. I can see what some of you mean when you say it's not necessary to run 4 spot calipers on an 86 non turbo 90kw monster, and sure there are other far cheaper and easier brake mods to do before this much of an upgrade should be considered. But i like over kill, but only if it's done right.

that said my old front brake setup, is for sale, complete bolt on package. pm me for details.

Selling due to BIGGER brake package being fitted to lightweight car

[floody]

Been looking at CR-01s...Reckon the 'big caliper' face would fit R33 GTS-T brakes (on Nissan hubs/rotors)?

[AE86 Spoontah]

15" wheels do clear, i use a 12" x 1.25" wilwood rotor and R32 gtr calipers on my car, i did need a wheel spacer to clear the back of the wheels but it still worked, and worked very well.

I think the biggest problem here is that when people are doing these brake swaps no one or very few at least are upgrading the master cylinder's, it took me three goes to get the correct size to use the brakes to the full potential. After that the braking performance was amazing. I can see what some of you mean when you say it's not necessary to run 4 spot calipers on an 86 non turbo 90kw monster, and sure there are other far cheaper and easier brake mods to do before this much of an upgrade should be considered. But i like over kill, but only if it's done right.

that said my old front brake setup, is for sale, complete bolt on package. pm me for details.

Selling due to BIGGER brake package being fitted to lightweight car

I agree with MAGIC MAN, since you're buying R33 GTS-T calipers etc, why not buy the master cylinder and brake booster while you're at it. It is a direct bolt on to the 86 firewall as i am running it on mine. It does make space very tight but you can stop on a 5c piece with little pressure at all.

15" rims will clear but you need to have a hub thickness greater than 35mm for clearance between calipers and back of spokes.

[PRIMRK]

that would be nice but i personally cant fit a brake booster in the engine bay...

[floody]

FWIW I think we tried a HR31 1" master on an AE86 and it fitted - Someone might have to confirm, my memory is borked - probably no need to change booster. Same as R32 Turbo non-ABS.