which tailshaft for a ke70 wagon

[Sam-Q]

I want to fit a T50 into my kE70 wagon, can I just split my current tailshaft and the front half of any T50 tailshaft on? or cant they be split?

[matt99]

AE71 should be ok to use?

[Sam-Q]

if I can use both a sedan and wagon tailshaft is the big question

[Matt-AE86]

There are usually no flanges to seperate it, you will need to get an ae71 tailshaft or have a tailshaft made.

[ke70dave]

There are usually no flanges to seperate it, you will need to get an ae71 tailshaft or have a tailshaft made.

almost correct...

you can split KE tailshafts. there is a chunky bolt inside the uni joint, you can only get to it with a spanner.

as can be seen in my little diagram here

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u166/ke70dave/splitshaft.jpg

i split my ke tailshaft and tried to join a ae86 tailshaft to it by joining it at the spline in the uni joint.

it was all going well untill i realised that the ae86 one had a bigger spline, it wasnt much though maybe 2 teeth.

anyway...as for your problem sam...i reckon you could get a sedan ae71 front half, and add it to your wagon rear half and join them?? just dunno if ae71 and ke70 have the same spline....

it might pay to meausre the distance from your gearbox end to where it joins and then get a hold of an ae71 one and measure that too?

[Sam-Q]

thanks for the great info dave, I will make that measument but I will have to be patient as AE71's are not easy to come by.

[adam]

You could measure my tail shaft when I drop by, Sam. Or I could measure it for you, just let me know where you'd want it measured from, etc.

[matt99]

I have a KE70 pannelvan tailshaft here, keep in mind though they use a S series diff, not a borgy. If you think you could use it, let me know.

[Sam-Q]

adam: thanks I will get back to you on it

matt: thanks but no I need one off an ae71, I am guessing what you have off the pano is exactly what I have already on my ke70 wagon

[Golberg]

matt: thanks but no I need one off an ae71, I am guessing what you have off the pano is exactly what I have already on my ke70 wagon

No its entirely different, wagons have a borgy diff, pannos have an S series. Pannos usually have a 1 peice (no centre uni either)

But you're right, any AE71 one should work... unless you are going to use a T18 T50.

[Sam-Q]

oh yeah your right I tottaly forgot about that, and no I have my original AE86 T50

[Matt-AE86]

Maybe if you have an S series shaft lying around and an S series diff, lop all the mounts off and bolt it up to the wagon. Just an idea.

EDIT: or get creative and put 4 link in :)

[spoon]

like someone else said, t18 t50 will work with the ke70 wagon tailshaft, the ke70 sedan and wagon are exact same tailshafts, can only assume the ae71/ae86 swap into wagons too. (obviously ae86 with s diff)

[Sam-Q]

so basicly I take the box out of a t18 or a ta22, fit that with the right bellhousing then use my existing tailshaft?

[Golberg]

TA22 one is crap, shifter location is different. But a series 1 T18 should do the trick (series two I am told are 22 spline), although you'll more than likely have to slightly modify the A series bellhousing to get it to fit perfectly.

There are a few threads on toymods about fitting an A series bellhousing to an early T50, best to have a look there.

[Sam-Q]

I thought the TA22 and the T18 boxes are one and the same thing? I dont mind moving the shifter hole

[Golberg]

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/8/0/546621.jpg

Its a long way forward, but if you don't mind hacking into your floor go for it... Although the stick may very well hit the dash.

[Sam-Q]

so the ta22 one is on the left? now I know this is a realy difficult question but any idea on how many mm there might be between them? because in the photo they look the same and they obviously arnt

[Golberg]

No no, they are both TA22 versions, hence why they look so similar. Should have specified sorry.

An AE86/AE71/T18 shifter sits slightly over the edge of the cup at the back of the box.

Roughly around 100mm, probably a little more toward the back of the box.

EDIT - Even better, JDM AE86 box:
http://www.mywestfieldbuild.com/newt50_1.jpg

It may be possible to swap extension housings from your AE86 one onto a TA22 variety.

[Sam-Q]

wow ok, I will have to do some measurments and see if it will work for me, your pics here will be usefull and thanks for the info

[Golberg]

Have some more info for you now too:

Just did an EPC rummage

33103-20130
33103-14040
33103-14041
33103-12130

Those are all the part numbers for T50 extension housings from all TE72's (even as early as 1979), AE71's & AE86's. Each is the substitute for the one above down the list. Suggesting that they are all interchangeable. And the 1979 boxes were definitely 20 spline, so I don't think that the spline count has any effect on the extension housing. As such I'd say its a pretty safe bet that an AE86 extension housing will go onto a TA22 box with some messing around and interchanging of parts.

[Sam-Q]

wow I had no idea. However wouldnt the shifter rods and all that need to be changed? if anything I would need to put the guts out of a t18 box into a broken ae86 t50 right?

[Golberg]

Well a T18 box already has the correct shifter location, so you should only need an A series bellhousing.... but an A series bell isn't a direct fit to a T18 box, people have done it before and reported mixed results. From memory the problem was the front main bearing is different between the early and late T50's and as such you have to leave some piece out of the early T50 front bearing when you swap the bell (or come up with another idea).

Ideally the best solution would be to use an early T50 rear shaft (with 20 splines) and then put it into an A series box... but I have no idea if that would actually work, hazard a guess and say no, but if you compare the part numbers of the syncro's and bearings it might shed more light on it.

But ultimately, its a big fuck around just to be able to use a KE70 tailshaft rather than an AE71 version. One has to question wether its worth it rather than just finding the correct tailshaft.

[Sam-Q]

yeah I hear you and point taken, thanks for the help

[Golberg]

Had another thought again (I'm full of them tonight it would seem).

A wagon would be pretty easy to do an F-series diff convo on.... Find a YR22 Tarago, steal the diff, you wont need a huge amount (if any) custom mounts made because its just leaf spring.

Then use the usual T-series tail shaft options.

[Sam-Q]

well if I can just split the shaft life the guys have said then I wouldnt need to do so as I dont care about LSD's or strength too much

what ratios do they have anyway? I am always up for a new place to find a diff center for my ae86

[Golberg]

There are heaps of different F series ratios, they've come in so many different cars, common in the front diffs of 4WD hilux's, through to MA61 supras, cressidas, hiaces, taragos, the list goes on, you could more than likely get any realistic ratio cheaply and easily.

Splitting the uni wont work either, even if you do that, you'll need the front split off an AE71 shaft. Might as well go for a whole AE71 shaft.

[Sam-Q]

my bad I got mixed up, I just need a complete ae71 tailshaft as they also have the S series right

[Golberg]

Well yeah, you want a complete AE71 tailshaft, but its not an S series in it, its a borgwarner diff. But all AE71's & KE70's sold in Australia had a borgwarner diff apart from the panel vans and the Spirit AE71.

[Sam-Q]

ok I thought it was the other way around? well anyway I did run a pano diff in my ae71 wagon a long time ago and i adapted it by getting the pinion lightly modified to suit, the differences are fairly small. This would only be needed if I was to use a panel van tailshaft though and the chance of that happening is almost zero.

Curious any idea which one is stronger the borg warner or the S series? I know I blew both of them up with each behind my old 4ac in the past