how much HP

[garage_kook01]

ok so how much power should i aim for, for a street driven, drift ae86? im thinking somewhere around 150KW would be big power?

This will either be a ca18 det or a 4agte

[slide86]

yeah 150kw atw would be heaps enough

[garage_kook01]

so in that case a gte would do it easily??

by the time i got a decent turbo manifold and turbo a ca would be about the same price wouldn't it

[slide86]

Originally posted by garage_kook01@Mar 26 2005, 06:31 AM
so in that case a gte would do it easily??

by the time i got a decent turbo manifold and turbo a ca would be about the same price wouldn't it
yeah man gte should be able to do that easy depending on size of turbo etc. if you get an aftermarket computer etc

[garage_kook01]

so which engine would you go for??

[breno]

there is really no such thing as a 4agte, is is just a normal 4age but turboded

[toyoda]

ca18det is going to be easier interms of boosting and modifiying unless you start of with a 4agze block as it will be stronger and you might find parts will be cheaper for the ca as aposed to getting custom stuff to make a 4agte

[garage_kook01]

Originally posted by breno@Mar 26 2005, 05:17 PM
there is really no such thing as a 4agte, is is just a normal 4age but turboded
yes i know that


Just if a ze went in my car it will be turboed and most people call that a te

[ae86levint]

a ca18 conversion will cost less than a gte setup.

[garage_kook01]

thats what i was thinking.
however is there any advantages sticking to toyota engine
with a ca18 would i have to upgrade brakes??

[slide86]

personally i would go the ca18det easier performace, but a 4agte is nice so i dunno

[garage_kook01]

I'll see what happens with money
what bout the brakes??

[.wolfwood]

jsut go 4agze and turbo it, thats all i did with a few other little things done the the motor and when running 15pis of boost it makes a lil ova 250hp, from waht i can recall, i have made 260 but not sure on the boost, was crazy.

btw thats at the rear wheels http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[garage_kook01]

thats big power"

In the end i would be an easier conversion wouldnt it??
what i mean is just put it in standad and then start saving money for the turbo manifold

[mikes86]

hmmm whats wrong with a na 4age? ive heard many a story of drift 4ac sprinters. and more recently a 4ac drift sprinter that keeps snapping axels and diffs. my 4age isnt very worked but it has plenty of go for some slight sideways action.

[ae86levint]

Originally posted by garage_kook01@Mar 26 2005, 05:31 PM
however is there any advantages sticking to toyota engine
with a ca18 would i have to upgrade brakes??
it says toyota thats about it. u will need bigger brakes which ever way u go, if your runnin stock solid disks i'd say u already need bigger brakes.

[decoyslikecurves]

Its true, 86s CAN be slid hard with just the humble 4ac.
My freind had a perfect condition red one with about 250,000kms on it, old 4ac, stiff as welded shocks suspension and a locked diff, running 175's on 14x7's.

And it slid hard.... Handbrake into turn and pop clutch, hold out. relied on weight transfer too.

The 4age 16 valve stock with a set of cams and exhaust is plenty enough for drift, and the fact that its underpowered means you become the better driver sticking with the big turbo boys.
I assume the 4agze would even be enough for drift.
Spend your money on suspension or LSD I think...

[garage_kook01]

all good points there guys. i used to have plenty of fun with the 4ac (when it was wet) and im sure a 4age would have enough power its just i love turbo lag wastegates and bov's silly i know but we all make mistakes

[mumblezzz]

I'd go the 4A-GTE route if I was you. I've previously owned a CA18 power hachi and in all honesty it was fucking gay. My NA 4age powered one still puts a bigger smile on my face and does it a lot more reliably.

[ae86levint]

Originally posted by garage_kook01@Mar 26 2005, 04:22 PM
ok so how much power should i aim for, for a street driven, drift ae86?
i totally missed your first question, in answer a well tuned *chassis wise* 86 with around 150 horsepower 4age smallport motor would be somewhere around a balanced package for street and some track days in my opinion of course http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/wink.gif

mumblezzz: y was your ca18 gay?

[mr2drift]

n/a 4a power all the way, no other way to have it if you have the choice......

[breno]

how much did u have to spend to get 160ps out of your 4age mr2drift?

[garage_kook01]

i takek it your sticking with yoour na set up for good then??


P.S is your car going to be in drift battle again now its all painted up???

[mr2drift]

depends on who you take it to, but with the setup we have at the moment if you paid for everything I have on it, and to have it done, it would probably cost you around $7500-$8500. not cheap, but ask mumblezzzz how nice it is. We are also 100% sure that with a retune (5-6 hours dyno work) and a new set of extractors, we will get 200ps from the little critter......


But seeing as i had been collecting most of the parts for about a year, the actual build cost was around $3500

[Medwin_3sGTE_AE86]

Agree completely! U dont need big power to give u a big grin... Infact, havin less power does great things to ur driving ability, in both drifting and racing! U rely on ur power less and become more proficient with vehicle control.

I think it would be a good idea to dump in a gze and build up the rest of ur car (and skills) and get the whole thing reliable and handle well. Then if u really feel the need for more power, rip out the s/c and drop in a turbo!

[Medwin_3sGTE_AE86]

Me personally... NA with quads ALL THE WAY!! http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/smile.gif

BTW.. MR2Drift... u've got 160hp... at the wheels or at the fly? and at what rpm? i'd love to know cuz i feel my car is under powered atm... a while back my BT 20v with tighe cams pulled 180hp@8200... but after i got the engine put in, it first pulled 100hp@6800 and i thought it was the crappy extractors so i got em replaced with some toda ones and after some retuning its now doin 120hp@6900... i'm kinda lost cuz i dont know why my engine isnt makin more power further up.... http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/7/5/4/536981.jpg

i've seen on a levin/trueno mag that a 205hp car pull around 160hp at the wheels... and 200hp is what i'm after... looks like i'm still pretty far off the mark...

[mr2drift]

*sigh* why is it people think that an n/a motor can make so much power. heres the facts, a $30 000.00 US formula atlantic 4age is the absoloute best n/a 4a available, and it makes 230-235 hp at the FLYWHEEL. think about it people, this is a pure race engine that revs to 11,000 rpm and gets rebuilt every 2000kms or so.

Taking this into account, 190-200hp at the FLYWHEEL in a motor that has some sort of life expectancy is a reasonable target. This equates to around 150 HP at the WHEELS. if anyone tells you they have more than 150 - 160 HP at the WHEELS they are pulling their dicks, or have spent MEGA BUX.

My totally built motor makes 125 HP at the WHEELS and we think there is about another 20 or so HP at the TYRES available with further tuning ect.

I so dont know where people get some power figures from, but they are totally unreasonable........

[DRFT - 86]

Originally posted by mumblezzz@Mar 27 2005, 12:14 AM
I'd go the 4A-GTE route if I was you. I've previously owned a CA18 power hachi and in all honesty it was fucking gay. My NA 4age powered one still puts a bigger smile on my face and does it a lot more reliably.
Yeh Im also interested to why you feel that the CA18DET powered 86 was gay......

On that note.......I would like to hear the experiences/ of 86's powered with each different motor.......like a description of the feeling .......

(I have a bigport 4age, so I know what that is like) :ph43r:

Ie: 4agze - 4age 20v - 4agte - Ca18det - Sr20det - 1GGteu - ect http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/wink.gif

If u have experienced then plz tell............. http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/7/5/4/536981.jpg

[Medwin_3sGTE_AE86]

Err... When i pulled 180hp@8200 it was on a engine dyno... At Stafford Tune...

[Medwin_3sGTE_AE86]

ey! mr2drift... 125hp @ the wheels... at wot rpm? what duration cams r u using? i'm guessin that ur using a 16v head with quads and some porting and running around 11.0:1 compression...?

My engine has been rebuilt from scratch with ported head, matched manifolds etc. i'm using 292/288 ivan tighe cams and because i pulled 180@ the fly, i was kinda expecting around 130-140 at the wheels...

I'm deciding to rippin out the plenum to wack in some socks over the trumpets... and also some cam gears, thus disabling the vvt... i dont mind losing some power down low to let the engine make max power above 8000rpm...

[Medwin_3sGTE_AE86]

Hey DRFT-86... I can give u an impression of a 20v, 16v and gte (ct26 turbo i think, it belongs to a mate of mine...)

The 20v (i own) feels very flat and torquey and revs very smoothly. Cuz mines got cams, its doesnt like full throttle below 3000, from about 3500 u can feel it startin to pull... the engine is in its prime from bout 5000-7200, limiter is set at 8500, but no point atm... Although mine's not makin wot it should up top, but the engine definatly feels like its got a wider and stronger torque band than a stcok 16v. And the sound....hehehe.... The quad throttle bodies just SCREAM!! sounds like a race engine...

I've been in my friends GTE, its a ae101 gze with s/c removed and bolted up a ct26 (i think) running the stock ecu. running around 14psi (1.0 bar) the engine feels Very Torquey, starts boostin hard around 2000rpm and very little lag. Max boost before 3000. I think the prime on this particular engine is between 3500-5000. The peak torque would shit on my 20v but the engine runs out of puff at around 6000... u can rev it to 7000 but theres no point. In a drag race, this thing would kill the 20v, but on the race track i reckon due to the 20v's wider torque band and the ability to stretch a gear between corners, i beleive my 20v would be every bit as quick if not faster than this particular gte...

[Jusdrifn 86]

funkdoc, mr2drift is using 304 degree cams, quad throttles and i guess its all polished ect

[mr2drift]

yeh thats spot on at 180hp at the fly, but some people seem to think that its possible to get like 170 180 RWHP, and its just not there. yeh mine uses 304 degree cams and quads from a silvertop 20v on a bigport ported head, like i said there is still a lot of tuning to be done, as basically it had a single dyno session to set it up.... gotta say tho, a mate had a blacktop 20v with aftermarket managment, and the torque of the 16 v kills the 20 v but never been in a modded 20v

[mr2drift]

at the moment mine is setup really strange, as it has been built from the ground up with the possibility to run up to a safe 9500 rpm, but you'd expect 304's to have nothing below 5000. mine pulls hard from 3500 and sorta dies around 8000, so a bit of time on the dyno and a new set of extractors should free up the HP we know is locked in there somewhere..

[DRFT - 86]

nice reply.......keep em comin

[seek]

Originally posted by mumblezzz@Mar 26 2005, 02:14 PM
I'd go the 4A-GTE route if I was you. I've previously owned a CA18 power hachi and in all honesty it was fucking gay.
You or the car Paul? http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/tongue.gif Scared of the power??? lol

[mr2drift]

my guess is he realized how much the extra weight of the ca fuked up the sweet handling of the car, same as he has just gone back to sprinter front suspension after previously running RA celica stuff.......

[mumblezzz]

Josh is exactly right. The car was fucking quick dont get me wrong and im probably biased cause ive never been a turbo person. But comparing the two cars, the turbo one never felt right. The extra weight upsets the balance of the car and it never wanted to change direction or handle way it should. The front end alway felt doughy.

I just love the 4age engine. I love the sound, the fact a 20 year old engine will bounce off 8000 RPM all day and I love the fact I can drift around a whole track with my foot buried into the firewall without lifting. I've driven every tough import you can think of but my shitbox bent up 60RWKW hachi still makes me smile. I dont care if everyone thinks its a shitbox, I dont care the only people that take photos of it are people I know, I dont care it doesent do sideways burnouts all the way around the track. I just wanna drive and be satisfied knowing I could be competetive and beat most of the cars you see at a drift day.

[slide86]

Originally posted by mumblezzz@Mar 28 2005, 09:32 AM
Josh is exactly right. The car was fucking quick dont get me wrong and im probably biased cause ive never been a turbo person. But comparing the two cars, the turbo one never felt right. The extra weight upsets the balance of the car and it never wanted to change direction or handle way it should. The front end alway felt doughy.

I just love the 4age engine. I love the sound, the fact a 20 year old engine will bounce off 8000 RPM all day and I love the fact I can drift around a whole track with my foot buried into the firewall without lifting. I've driven every tough import you can think of but my shitbox bent up 60RWKW hachi still makes me smile. I dont care if everyone thinks its a shitbox, I dont care the only people that take photos of it are people I know, I dont care it doesent do sideways burnouts all the way around the track. I just wanna drive and be satisfied knowing I could be competetive and beat most of the cars you see at a drift day.
Amen to that http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[mikes86]

to tell you the truth pauly i like your car alot better than 90% of the cars out on the dori days. Why? because matched up with the driver its an absolute animal that is made for the soul purpose of go and nothing about show. It shows the average hachi driver that image is nothing performance is everything, just go out there and drive like an animal.



p.s also a na 4age rocks!

[DRFT - 86]

more experiences of different engines......please.......very interested to hear

[mumblezzz]

Meh If you cant drift with a standard 4age, you're only going to struggle with more power. Learn to drive first, then you will know where to spend money.

[Joel-AE86]

I drive a stock bigport 4AGE which makes around 70rwkw, and I love it. My local track (Mallala in Adelaide) has some long fast corners, and it struggles mainly to gain speed in a straight line to give me a fast enough corner entry, however it is sooo much fun, and I feel I get by ok.

I agree however that with less power you learn to get by, and use much greater entry speeds. I see all the time at track people with cars that would make an easy 180-200rwkw, and they have learnt to slide by relying on that power to get them through the corner. They have slow entry speeds and massively ride the handbrake...then mid corner put the power down.

I am going to be building a 4AGTE in the coming months and will be happy with 130rwkw. At the moment I struggle in battles as I cant gain speed very quickly, especially on my large local track, and also cant carry much corner exit speed.

[JohnO]

i find in my falcon i use to be able to corner very hard, but now that ive gave her a power increase of 2-3x what it use to be i have to corner slowly or shell just spin the wheels

[DRFT - 86]

sprintahs brah............after 86 comparisons...........really want to hear from someone whos been in a 1ggte powered one ahy

[Joel-AE86]

how does the 1G hachi handle? it'd lose all the weight balance which makes the car as good as it is. it'd be like 65 to 35?

I wont be convinced that this conversion is successful until someone can place decent in an aussie drift comp, or a jap driver uses this in a drift car and proves it to be successful and competitive. You can make a similar power output out of a 4AGTE, reliable and in all ways lighter and better. Or even an SR or CA!

[upgarage]

dont like the 1g ae86 idea

bit of a lead tipped arrow
originally a 4cyl
keep it that way http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/smile.gif

[DRFT - 86]

yeh........all for the perfect balance/4 cylinder............just was wondering how it would go.......didnt realise that it was such a heavy motor...................

[upgarage]

its a sixer so its a fair bit heavier

[Joel-AE86]

The power output of 1G is not hard to achieve in a well built 4cyl.

[monkeymajik]

I've got a 4agte sprinter, it has never been on the dyno, but im pretty confident that it is producing 150rwkw+. (td05h-16g, 16psi, big frontmount, 3inch system etc...)

I've also driven the car when it was supercharged with a big pulley.

They really are two different beasts. Because of the large exhaust housing on the turbo setup, it makes great power but it is really quite peaky. The throttle control at mid corner can be pretty tricky. The supercharged setup was much more linear, though it really started to run out of steam in the upper rpm range.

I think the max power limitations of the sprinter are when you can no longer get away with the T series diff. I have been told buy a guy who used to race them in IP and other classes that once you put bigger heavier diffs in there, it really starts screwing up the handling characteristics.

[upgarage]

yeah

ridiculous amounts of power requires hilux diff swap or skyline diff
which leads to lots of extra weight in the back

[DRFT - 86]

cool....cool....