s12 vs ae86

[FNFAT6]

just curious what u guys think pro's and cons..

i was looking at an 86 track car as a project, but ive noticed there are quite a few good s12's around for 5 g ish that are turbs have suspension setups etc yet for an 86 with similar specs i think it would be round the 8 g mark ...


is there something im missing with it ? i havnt driving an 86 or s12 so do they handle better or something or is it justa takumi mark up ?

i mean ive started to really like 86's and their shape but im starting to think there are better options price wise

[samuel]

Having owned an AE86 and an S12...

S12 handled much better, but it was the IRS + LSD + 4 wheel disc version. Power was shite because the CA20E engine belongs on the bottom of the ocean as a boat anchor...

Steering is a bit heavier in the S12 and due to the longer bonnet (and much longer engine bay) you get the illusion that all of the weight is infront of you.

I miss my S12, I don't miss my AE86

I would own an SR20DET IRS model S12 any day of the week...

All nissan engines starting with CA** belong in the ocean, holding your boat in place

[SEXY 16]

s12= boat anchor
there is no comparison

[D-limo]

Do S12's run the same steering box arrangement as DR30?

[floody31]

Do S12's run the same steering box arrangement as DR30?[/b]

I think they might be rack? They're kind of an overlap model, the S110 silvia was current when the DR30's were first out, and the S12 came out as the DRs were finishing up.

I'd say the IRS S12 could be a good option but the live axle one would be average. Truth be told if you could get an AE86 for $8k you could spend the same or little more and buy a CA s13 Sil or 180sx....

[tipper86]

its because takumi did not drive a kneesan s12, in saying that my mate had a rb20 gayzelle which was sold for 7k with all the gear (rb20det conversion, Power steering conversion, coilovers, hks25/30, r200 LSD, r32 brakes, PWR cross flow radiator, cooler, exhaust etc) it took him months to find a potential buyer. They are a good car to drive and drift, but are ugly as dogs balls. Great thing about them is the IRS rear end very trick http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/biggrin.gif, and there are millions of them at the wreckers so spare panels/parts are widely available.

[FNFAT6]

yeah i think the takumi thing is spot on ... looking at one wiht a ca18et (single cam) alot of u prb seen it on f/s forums .. just finding the comparison to 86's interesting

anyhooooooo thnx for ya imput

[flamingheads]

Wouldnt Celicas be the car to compare Gazzelles with? They both have 2 litre boring motors, both look sporty but dont act like it, probably weigh about the same etc.

[TUFF_086]

s12 are great after you get rid of the ca20e
ae86 are great after you get rid of the 4ac

for bang for your buck s12 is a better option and is basically the same except there are more upgrade/ conversion options than the ae86 but it depends on personal choice

[StockAE86]

how heavy is an s12?

[madnzer]

i reckon the AE86, as after a 4ag is setup it has huge potential. the same can be said about any nissan with a SR though :/
but in the end, you can use the AE86 as a track car.. competing in the <1601cc class http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/wink.gif

[slydar]

pft.

[madnzer]

damn lagging internet

[samuel]

1300 odd KG

[flamingheads]

it couldnt be that heavy. celicas and silvias are around 1100 kg, the S12 doesnt look much bigger than a sprinter so I doubt it could be much over 1100.

[slydar]

you just need to work out what YOU want.

the characters of the cars are very differant. ke's and 86s are unique with there short wheel base and ultra light weight, the driving experiance is not comparable.

s12s have obvious potential. but things like RCA's and the like will need to be custom made.

the rear end is also not that great. as far as im aware its trailing arm style and you will get massive geometry changes once you lower the car as much as youre going to want to if you intend to drift it.

because the rear end is nothing like an s13 ect, it is very hard/impossible to correct the geometry at the rear. this is why you see pictures of moddified cars from this era in japan (r31,t/aa63 ect) with MASSIVE amounts of rear camber.

the set up in the live axle version is also inferior to whats under and ae86. there is no panhard bar, the top arms are simply on an angle to stop lateral movement.

the lsd for a h190(live axle diff used in the gazzelle) is basically impossile to get. and extremely expensive.

theyre an extreeeeemely bad prospect come resale time. i have a mate with an extremely neat one who has been struggling to sell it for 2 years. you will lose money.

if youre about to say thats true of any modified car, well to a degree it is, but not always. an ae86 carefully modified you can get out what you put in, and then some. ive done it twice.

an sr conversion will cost the same in a s12, 86 or ke.

[samuel]

I speak for the IRS LSD Model

1270kg kerb...


it couldnt be that heavy. celicas and silvias are around 1100 kg, the S12 doesnt look much bigger than a sprinter so I doubt it could be much over 1100.[/b]

[StockAE86]

I thought they were meant to be that heavy which is why I asked

A Delorean doesn't look so much bigger than an ae86 either, does it? http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/wink.gif

[GAKI86]

oh mannnnn!!!!

i cant find that damn panda s12 with tofu sticker...

lolz

[jono86]

drove a mates s12 couple of months ago.... irs model, sr... the thing still went like poo.... you get to the limit of adhesion way too early and it just didnt like going round corners fast.
i say ae86 all the way. alot more predictable on the edge and nicer to drive.

[crazy86]

s12s have obvious potential. but things like RCA's and the like will need to be custom made.[/b]
you can bolt on a huge combination of s13/s15 front suspension onto the s12, including struts, LCA's and steering racks, giving a very nice stable front end.

I have a few mates that have drifted s12's with great success, one with an IRS coupe with SR20 DE+T, the other with a live axle hatch with FJ20 Turbo. THe IRS car drifted fine, but did chew out the rear fairly quickly because of camber issues, the live rear car also drifts perfectly fine. If you are drifting at a level where the s12 rear end is letting you down, then its time to move onto a newer vehicle.

Both the S12 and AE86 require a handfull of engine and suspension mods from stock to be a worthy track car, but if you want to go turbo, the nissan lends itself to the turbo application as it came with a CA18 turbo from the factory (also came with an FJ20 turbo from the factory as well, but these engines are getting rare) and the big winner for turbo application is the S12 driveline is built to take the punishment, unlike the glass drivelines of the T50 and T/S series diffs of the toyota, and if you need to upgrade your gearbox, its a fairly easy install by comparison to trying to throw a W box in a sprinter.

[crazy86]

Having said all that, I have owned a S12 and an AE86, and the S12 was a pure bitch faced whore of a car. AE86 wins for me.

[LAZY]

According to the last DB mag, s12 have unbalanced chassis.

[RB20DET_Silvia]

No one can argue here.

S12 out of the box a better car then a ADM sprinter.....u can swap coilovers from S13s into them they have better handeling etc....much better car stock vs stock.

But once u put money into both they are just as good as each other just depends on ur taste....and also CA's are nasty bitchs....i would rather a SR20DE.

- Luke

[Jesse86]

s12's are a heap of shit end of story.. get a sprinter and catch the hachi fever.
u wont regret it

[Gilly]

meh you can put s13 coilies in anything these days.....

i think s12's are cool, would i own one? no, no one would buy it when i got sick of it.

[balistic]

One of my mates has a Nissan Gazelle Sport Sedan running an LZ20B turbo - nothinig resembling a road going car but thought I'd throw it in http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/smile.gif

http://www.datrats.com.au/BRAY.jpg

[RB20DET_Silvia]

Thats hot as.....

As i have said in my above post....there just as good as a sprinter if not better out of the box bog stock.....dont listen to the takumi freaks or know crap all about other cars and there own.

But i still like my sprinter more!

- Luke

[Course_Out]

One of the guys around here had a nice s12 coupe with an sr20 in it but he found it was a pain to get bits for (as slydar said). Personally i think they can look hot and the fact is that any rwd car can drift or be quick on a circuit/dragstrip if you throw enough money at it.

Example of s12 hotness:
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/4/8/4/3/116968.jpg

[aaaaah]

Those equips are the hotness

[Gilly]

converted, i would own one now. that sports sedan is HOT!

[redsprinter]

if you cant deicde then get a trueno. its a hatch and got pop-up head light. and drop in a ca19det or sr20. nice. and get those damn equips, damn hotness.

that example of the s12, i gotta say looks super tuff and wheels set it off.

[flamingheads]

but for the price of buying an S12, putting in a CA18/SR20DET, upgrading suspension plus random old car costs you could easily get an S13 which already has all that stuff, is newer, lighter, looks better (in a lot of opinions), easier to get parts for, probably handles better and will have a much better resale.
The only reason I'd get an S12 is if it was already modified then it would be a good, cheap option.
My 2c.

[FNFAT6]

but for the price of buying an S12, putting in a CA18/SR20DET, upgrading suspension plus random old car costs you could easily get an S13 which already has all that stuff, is newer, lighter, looks better (in a lot of opinions), easier to get parts for, probably handles better and will have a much better resale.
The only reason I'd get an S12 is if it was already modified then it would be a good, cheap option.
My 2c.[/b]


yeah well thats exactly why i started the thread,

some of u may have seen it posted on a few forums but there is an s12 hatch f/s for less than 5g with suspension work, a ca18et ( yes ET ..its only single cam) front mount, bucket seats, zorst,LSD, and its very very clean, made 113 rw kws at 10 psi witrh stock turbo but also comes with a t25g .. which is straight bolt on and should get a good bunch of power with same amount of boost...

so for less than 5g's i could get a clean car, with 125ish atws which everything i need to learn the craft of drift, where as for that same price on a hachi id be lucky to get a reasonable 4age 16v with light suspension work and no LSD .....very lucky ... see where im coming from ...


this thread has been really helpful though, i have grown to really like sprinters but i think that s12 i just said avbout is to good to pass up reallyeven though they are a lil ugly LOL

[floody31]

I speak for the IRS LSD Model

1270kg kerb...


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it couldnt be that heavy. celicas and silvias are around 1100 kg, the S12 doesnt look much bigger than a sprinter so I doubt it could be much over 1100.[/b]
[/b]

Holy shitcakes, thats only 10kg lighter than an R31 sedan with an RB - for fucks sake, is the IRS cast iron?!