How to get more lock out of S13 front sus..

[--Redwork--]

Is the a way of increasing the amount of lock on an 86 equiped with a s13 front end...

My new ride has it and the amount of lock it has is fairly unimpresive...
What are my options.??


I know fast eddie movied his rack forward and also runs tubular LCA's.
Fantapants is messing around with some steering knucle mods...
Any one have any experience..??

What work what doesn't....

Haven't really has a chance to get under the car and have a descent look at whats limiting travel yet...

[fantapants]

should be only very slightly less or the same as power stearing lock.

Most mods you will do to get more lock have to do with the lca, make sure the lock stops are gone. Also tubulars let you make decent use of any of the shorter knuckles going around.

lock spacers i believe will work, howvere i have found i hit the lca befor running out of lock.

If your keen you can come round and look at mine, though its on blocks we can chuck some wheels on and have a play.

[--Redwork--]

Yeah I saw the knuckel weld on things you bought....
Cheacked out the web site for a bit more info...
$250 US plus shipping is a bit priccy

Yeah I think mine hits the LCA at the moment...
Haven't ground the stop off them yet though... Wheather that make much of a difference though....

Workin on the KE today.. hopfully get a chance to look at the 86 tonight...

Intrested to here what FAST EDDIE has to say about his cross memeber mod...
That I could do ... :) Though its alot of extra work...


Also... Is that any difference in rack position between the ae86 crossmember and the S13 one.... As I'm runnin an 86 X-member...

Need more lock to help my shit drifting ability.... :)

[Simon-KE70]

plenty difference between the 86 rack position and the s13 one. S13 rack sits much lower and further forward. you can mod it like eddie has but yes this is a lot of work.

anyway, rack spacers (the slip on kind) should be enough for all the lock you'll need. i seriously doubt you'll be hitting the lock spacers mid drift and if you are, it will prob start binding.

this is where knuckels come into play. when done correctly they will eliminate bind and increase the steering speed.

if you guys are really interested in a tech read.... theres a 15 or so page thread on NS.com which has lots of pics, info and so on about getting more lock out of the s13 set up.

http://www.nissansilvia.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=360823

[fantapants]

yeah knuckles is 250 inclusive of shipping... anywhere :) lol i was expecting more but given the price of the other knuckle arangments its pretty cheap... was just under 400 landed and welded :)

you get a bit more with the lock stops off... but HEAPS more with a tubular lca

hey simon, if the the s13 rack sits that much lower that cant be too good for the bump stear? or do they have other ways around that?

saw the thread, but its full of a lot of hella drift knuckle bra! :)

[Simon-KE70]

the rack and the s13 steering arms are designed together. so yes the rack sits lower but bump steer is not an issue cause the steering arm is at the right height for it.

you get bump steer when running 86 rack with s13 susp cause the 86 rack is higher, so the LCA and the tie rods are not paraelle and run on a cross over type angle... not good.

[45aken]

What would be involved in running a s13 steering rack in my 86 then?

[--Redwork--]

So would I be better off gettin an S13 X memeber and fitting that to my car as a better starting point.??

[--Redwork--]

Just read that link SIMON... sooo many pages... LOL.

Got some ideas.. :)

[fantapants]

yeah but the bumpsteer caused by a standard s13 conversion using 86 rack and lca at full compression was something very small anyways... like a little less than a mm toe out? trying to remember from the old forums.

so are the lca mounting point significantly lower as well?

how high is the chassis rail in an s series?

my thoughts were that a positive progression was preffered from strut type suspension. in that the arc should be outward when suspension compresses. and you want the lca and stearing arms to be paralel and in agreed arcs to each other to limit or eliminate bumpstear.

the wheel mounting face is further from the lca ball joint at the strut bottom on 86 stuff, especially with rca included :) so natuarally the lca sits flatter or inverted when using s13 stuff. This i thought led to negative progrssion in the suspension arc. But this would be aggressivley aggravated in s series cars if they have a significantly lower lca and stearing rack assembly?

So im thinking they sit the crossmember much higher in the car? to gain back that positive arc? or am i missing shit :)

ps not arguing, genuinely trying to learn :)

[--Redwork--]

HAHAHA.... that was so over my head.. but I understood all of it....
Drinking and technical car speak doesn't mix...LOL...
May require another OMT to get that to fully sink in... :)

[fantapants]

if it went over your head... do a hand stand... limits the available room for overhead adventures :)

[--Redwork--]

Ha... i think if I did a hamdstand I'd lose my lunch ATM...But I did undertsand whay you were meaning.... I was under the same inpression that you want your LCA to be level under full compression.


You obviouly haven't tried your new steering spacer things...
I don't know what to call them...They do everything..
Bump steer, anckermans. steering ratio all in one...

Also.. Is there a contorl arm I can use that is LONGER than S13...?
Think my wheel comes close to the castor tod from memory.
And car has CBY flares so plenty of room to go wider..

[45aken]

Before anything drastic if i do get huge bumpsteer im going to try to sort out the angle problems with adjustable tie rod ends (height) and rca ball joints.

Hopefully that will fix any small problem.

[fantapants]

hey saken i didnt really get the knuckle adaptors for bump steer as they actually INCREASE the difference in arc for the lac and stearing rack. It was mainly to avoid the binding seen when the s13 stuff hits full lock, or approachs it. this is something prevelant in even standard s13.

have been looking for s13 rca ball joints, the most i can find is 25 mm, most are 10 or 15. S14 and 15 are MUCH more prevelant, but not the right taper :S


hey twin man, s14 are longer, but the ball joint is a differnt taper. think r33 are longer again, but not sure if the bll joint could be replaced. not sure on the ball joint specs as the whether s14/15 are interchangeable with s13??

[--Redwork--]

Yeah like i said.. I haven;t had a chance to through the car up on stands and have a close look yet...

From what you guys are sayin I think I might mod the X member like FAST EDDIE did and then cut and shorten the steering arms... Maybe a little less anckermans while I'm there... Perhaps...

Have to find out EXACTLY whats stopping everything traveling further...

[Simon-KE70]

if you could post a few pics of your set up redwork it might help us understand whats happening.

fantapants: i'll reply to the above when im a bit more awake LOL

[fantapants]

yeah i just reread dome of the spelling, :D i needed awake pills :)

[--Redwork--]

Fantapants..
I saw RCA ball joint for sale from drift shop on nissan silvia...
200 a pair i think they were... looked fairly large to.

Tubular LCA are 400 from the us..
500 for the exact same thing from JustJap
And 950 for the driftshop ones... That comes with inbuilt castor rods as well... (not useable in 86)

Don't have time to look at the sprinter ATM... tryin to get the KE ready for paint...
Wanted to spray it today... That was the plan anyways.... Currently not even close.. :)
Still fixing rust...

Will get pics of the sdetup when I have a chance guys...

[fantapants]

yeah i had a shit time dealing with driftshop.... but you may get lucky. The driftshop tubulars with built in castor rods can be used... it is a fairly minor alteration to the castor mounts... well minor if you can weld i believe :) That was the option i was looking at long term.

The driftshop lca are always out of stock and the differnce is 25mm. his are the largest i have found :)

have seen this other thing which gives another like 5 mm, but was an idea i was laying with. If you can get a balljoint with a really long spindle bolt point, i have seen spacers that sit between the ball joint spindle and the hub setup. They added another 5 mm, but if you could get longer threaded sections???? i dont know i you can but was something i was going to look into. Then its just a matter of maching up the spacer with the right taper on either side.

[FAST EDDIE]

to get best lock out of that setup just put a rack spacer in, had awesome lock. i put the shorter knuckles in and gained no extra lock but less turns of the steering wheel lock to lock.

i have 86/s13 chopped in half and welded together lcas not tubular items.

the whole idea of moving my rack fowards was to stop the rack ends hyper extending which doesnt increase lock. You need the rack to move the maximum first

[Simon-KE70]

thats what i said a few posts up... rack spacer is all you need for awesome lock, i have a pair for 20 bucks if someone wants them.

[--Redwork--]

I got a AJPS spacer sittin here already... was for my KE though...
And I don't think the rack it reaching full travel yet though...Something else is hittin first...

But bussy me still has had a chance to look at it yet....
Could do it RIGHT NOW... but I need dinner and then goin to watch 2 Fast 2 Furious .... Sick as bra... LOL..

[Simon-KE70]

jack it up off the ground and then turn it lock to lock and inspect what the susp is doing. What LCA's are you running? its possible the lock stops are in the wrong spot and its hitting too early...

[FAST EDDIE]

lock stoppers? what are they haha i chopped em off

[--Redwork--]

Yeah... The LCA are just new stocko S13 ones....
Need to be "modified" by having the stopper removed..
I'll jack it up tomorow and snap acouple of pics....

Intrested to try reducing the anckermans... seems to fairly benifical from the thread you sugested SIMON...
I wanna shorten the steering arms anyway so no to hard alter anckermans while I'm doing it...

[--Redwork--]

Some pics...
Very quick ones though as everyone here is asleep, so can't go making a racket in the garage...


Ohh god.... Wish i was good at the interminets... And knew how to resize images... Uploading takes sooo long.. :( And then they'll only be little thumb nails when there posted too..



Ok.. update.... file took foreva to load so tried cropping them to reduce the file size and tryin again....
I'm sure I found something that lowers the resolution. But i can't find it now.. :( Here's hopin they work now...


Grrrr.... why wont it work.??

[--Redwork--]

Try 1 at a time. See if that get me some where...


YAY It worked..


Ok this is currently my MAX lock...

I turned it the way till it stopped... doesn't appear to be hittin anything... think the rack to toppin out... went the other way and it stop with about 5mm of clearence between the stopped on the LCA and the tie rod end...


Obviouly the rack isn't centered properly...
Issue NO 1...
Second.... Conversion was done with Blue bird ends and ra?? rack ends...
Should I change this to the other stuff...???
Wouldn't mind gettin some of those pillow balll type rod ends so I can adjust the bump steer a little..

OK try another PIC.
This ones to make Eddie happy... Has not the only one with SR powah..!

[--Redwork--]

Booyaa.

[--Redwork--]

Alright..!!! i just have to wait like half an hour for it to work..
More tomorow... i'll jack it up and pull the wheels.

[fantapants]

thats the ol banzai car yeah???

[--Redwork--]

Yeah... Its the old Banzai car....
Been changed a bit since they had it though....

New engine setup
New suspension.

still need lots of work.. You should have seen the wiring in this car... OMG...
We had to replace everything from the dash forward..!! Not mention how they've fitted the flairs either... I'll get a pic to show you what I mean..

Gotta sort the rear suspension out...
Modifie the tunnel so i can get a decsent drive shaft angle with out having the diff hit the floor.. Wanna do equal lenght trailing arms and so on...


Makes a healthy amount of power now too... :)

[--Redwork--]

Jacked it up and took the wheels off....

Hits the LCA stoppers both ways easily...

I'm a little concered that if I remove the stopped that it might bind...
Also.. I'm using Blue Bird rod ends and I think they should be swapped from side to side as the bend goes the wrong way...???
And my LCA and steering arm are almost perfectly paralell... isn't this how its suposed to be.???