4AGE popping dipstick

[Stain]

My old, stock, very tired bigport would pop its dipstick out randomly when revving high and I was told it was because it had blowby and there was nothing I could do about it.
I ended up putting a oil catch can in, which after some time would ooze oil out of its seams, but there was never any oil in it!
Which said to me the pressure coming out of the head was so great it was pushing the oil through the gaps in the catch can rather than being sucked back into the intake manifold.

Now I've rebuilt a smallport - completely fresh - everything changed or cleaned...
I took the catch can out and simply ran the stock hose from the camcover to the intake mani. Took it for a drive and bang, dipstick is out, oil all over the engine bay again!

And I know another completely stock bigport that pops its distick too.
Is this common with 4AGEs? What causes it? How the hell do I fix it?

[LittleRedSpirit]

Ive owned two 4ages, one which developed shitty rings rather fast, and even when it was really smoky, it never did this. Ive always connected my catch can to the port on the back of the 20v cam cover, and the dipstick tube.

You do not want whatever oil that gets fired from the motor to go back in. Catch cans can collect moisture and really shitty oil, so you dont want it to ever purge it back. I too had a shitty catch can that was made in three pieces from drift brand or some shit. The leak was fixed by throwing the shitty cheapo useless can in the bin, and buying a bigger better one.

Did you reinstall the pcv hose in the right place?

[wide s13]

when it did it to me 2days later a piston went bang :(

[Stain]

the pcv hose (on a 16v) just goes from the intake cam cover to the intake manifold, right?

how do you go about connecting the catch can to the dipstick tube?

I was always under the impression the catch can, caught the oil/crap, but u plumbed it back into the intake manifold so the pressure was equalized (because venting into the atmo is illegal) so the engine shouldnt be sucking in all that crap again, cos its sitting in the catch can?

if that made sense

[RolandGTV85]

of topic but your picture looks like the back to the future DMC DeLorean car but instead an 86. Looks like its flying! BOOYAH!

[sun_moon]

my smallport did it... wrapped some electrical tape around the yellow part of the dipstick to make it a tighter fit... never happened again.

[LittleRedSpirit]

the pcv hose (on a 16v) just goes from the intake cam cover to the intake manifold, right?

how do you go about connecting the catch can to the dipstick tube?

I was always under the impression the catch can, caught the oil/crap, but u plumbed it back into the intake manifold so the pressure was equalized (because venting into the atmo is illegal) so the engine shouldnt be sucking in all that crap again, cos its sitting in the catch can?

if that made sense

The PCV, or positive Crankcase Ventilation, is used to let any blow by type gas pressure out of the head and back into the inlet manifold via a one way valve. it will always enter the manifold after the throttle/throttles. In this way it stops excessive oil being forced into funny places like the combustion chamber, for the most part.

To connect the dipstick tube to the catch can you just remove the dipstick and push the hose over the tube. Keep the dipstick in the car as it will be a defect if its not somewhere in the vehicle, I believe. I cant believe I had to explain that.

You don't want anything escaping the catch can or its hoses and going back into the motor. I say if its a defect to have the catch can venting to atmosphere, live with it. Most cops wont pick it, and if you seal the system up, you are going to create a system where any positive pressure from combustion that escapes to the head or the sump will result in an expelled dipstick. People seem to carry on like the simple oil catch can is some sort of dry sump tank that needs to be fed back into the motor. Its not so dont go there. The kind of shitty oil that gets fired out there is usually combustion affected or watery, so never ever purge it back into the motor. Also you want the vent on the catch can to be filtered. It will suck air at certain rpm, so you don't want it to suck unfiltered air.

[Stain]

of topic but your picture looks like the back to the future DMC DeLorean car but instead an 86. Looks like its flying! BOOYAH!

Its up on ramps and jackstands, but you cant see any of em in the pic. Deceiving, but cool. :)


To connect the dipstick tube to the catch can you just remove the dipstick and push the hose over the tube. Keep the dipstick in the car as it will be a defect if its not somewhere in the vehicle, I believe. I cant believe I had to explain that.

Why would you put a hose over the dipstick tube?! Wouldnt a better option be to run a hose from the fitting on the sump up to the cam cover?

[LittleRedSpirit]

If that was a good Idea someone would have done it. I dont see any reason to. Remember blow by will pressurize the sump, and if your valve stem seals are shitty then you can pressurize the head, so add pressure to pressure and you get an expelled dipstick ,increased oil consumption, etc.

There is no merit in any way sealing the system, at certain rpm the head will blow air out, at others it will suck, same goes for the dipstick, same goes for the pcv connection. If it were a racecar you might delete the PCV valve, and plug the connection to the manifold, then connect the pcv port on the top cover to the catch can too. Then its effectively like the other hose from the rear port and is just a vent with no emissions considerations.

If you have a pcv hose and functioning valve then you shouldn't get pinged by the cops.

[70XIN]

Just thought i should add my 2c

A normal "catch can" on its own won't help the dipstick problem, it NEEDS to be ventilated (one of the catch-cans that has a breather filter on it).

Also worth noting: the last 4/5 4A's i've looked at, the rubber on the dipstick has deteriorated (or hardened) .. either way making a shithouse seal .. a brand-new dipstick from toyota is available for a single red note.

And one last thing, if your cam-covers are all burnt and reddish coloured on the inside *MAYBE* a lack of oil changes has clogged the baffling/outlet in the cam cover, give it a good spray with carby-cleaner or something equally vicious and clean the shit out.

So in summary: get a vented catch-can (or run the line down beneath your car), check baffling inside cam cover, then if it still happens your dipstick might need replacing

[Nikkojoe]

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this but on a bigport, IF you use a rwd manifold and fwd throttle body the breather is blocked off (need to run both fwd and rwd). If you cut and shut you manifold, the same happens. Therefore if you run a smallport manifold converted to rwd, the breather is blocked off and therefore it will blow out your dipstick. The same happend to my mate's 4age who ran a rwd manifold with a fwd throttle body.

[Golberg]

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this but on a bigport, IF you use a rwd manifold and fwd throttle body the breather is blocked off (need to run both fwd and rwd). If you cut and shut you manifold, the same happens. Therefore if you run a smallport manifold converted to rwd, the breather is blocked off and therefore it will blow out your dipstick. The same happend to my mate's 4age who ran a rwd manifold with a fwd throttle body.

Very true, if this is the case then its pretty easy to drill out the missing hole for the RWD manifold, I did it with a little burr on my Dremel. I then expoxied the other side closed so that no unfiltered air could get in before the manifold.

[corknose]

hahah i just got a cable tie to hold mine in

[pen15]

easy don't run a blowby line and block the hole into your intake this will blow a small amount of shit oil into the atmosphere but its not that bad if u feel bad about it kill a cow and solve the pollution issue i do this and my oil pressure is fine as in cal's car i helped with the cam cover seals btw cal if u want i can fix ur problem really easy

[H8CHIR6KU]

it doesnt seen anyone has mentioned it yet, but have you also checked your pcv valve?

if it is sticky or partially blocked it will cause excessive crank case gas build up and pop the dipstick out. its not hard to do.

just pull the pcv valve out and shake it. if it rattles then its all good. if it doesnt rattle its fucked. if it rattles very softly or sounds like a weird rattle then its blocked.

if its blocked then can of degreaser is your friend. just keep spraying degreaser in it till it sounds better. you will be suprised at the amount of solid old oil comes out of these. and it isnt uncommon fot these to become blocked or stuck either

[sundee]

ive got a small spring on mine.. works well..

[Stain]

H8CHIR6KU, the 4AGE doenst have a PCV 'valve'... there is just some baffle plates inside the cam cover to stop most of the oil/mist getting sucked into the intake manifold.

[pen15]

H8CHIR6KU, the 4AGE doenst have a PCV 'valve'... there is just some baffle plates inside the cam cover to stop most of the oil/mist getting sucked into the intake manifold.


i didn't think there was a pvc valve

just release fumes into atmosphere works a treat

[H8CHIR6KU]

hairy muff. its not often you get cars without pcv valves.

if thats the case just check that the hose isnt blocked then

[Stain]

Thats the thing. The hose isnt blocked, the port in the intake manifold which it connects to isnt blocked...

Pull that hose off and let it vent - dipstick doesnt pop out.
Leave that hose connected from the cam cover to the intake - dipstick pops out.

Why! Whats the diference between venting into the intake to venting into the atmo?

[Nikkojoe]

Thats the thing. The hose isnt blocked, the port in the intake manifold which it connects to isnt blocked...

Pull that hose off and let it vent - dipstick doesnt pop out.
Leave that hose connected from the cam cover to the intake - dipstick pops out.

Why! Whats the diference between venting into the intake to venting into the atmo?

Did you happen to read my post above? It doesn't vent into the intake directly so to speak, it vents into the throttle body. The fitting on the intake manifold doesn't go straight into the air chamber, but goes in a little channel on the side of the manifold to the port on the throttle body.

-Cut and shut will block off the breather
-Using rwd bigport intake manifold WITH fwd throttle body will block off breather (fwd have the port on opposite side - you could drill it out though).

[Stain]

Oh, now it makes sense. I thought it just went straight into the main chamber.

My manifold is a RWD one. But someone has been messing around with the throttle body so it could be blocked... Will have to check that out.

[Nikkojoe]

I had a look at your build thread, your t/b is a fwd one (can tell by the direction of the vac ports on top - both point forward on fwd where as rwd will have on forward and one to the side).

Also you could put a fitting onto the intake pipe between the filter and t/b and run the breather into that.

[Golberg]

Its really easy just to mod the FWD to work the same as the RWD. Works out a bit neater than trying to route it in somewhere else too.

[NIZLAH]

dig from the stoneage, Just got my rebuilt smallport running 'again' and went for a couple laps of the local streets running the car hard.... got home to find my dip stick popped and oil everywhere..... Now I have had this engine running quite a bit without actually putting it under any load as I was trouble shooting other problems... I did notice that it became quite smokey out the exhaust and the top of the pistons were oily when I took the plugs out (plugs were reasonably clean though)

Could this be an issue where the rings didn't bed in and now its got blowby issues? do I still have a chance of been able to run it in so it fixes itself so to speak... ?

Should I just vent the cam cover breather to atmo and continue driving?

[Matt]

What did u do with the breather? They need to either plumb back into the inlet or the atmosphere.

Does the 16v have a pcv valve in it?

[Sam-Q]

dig from the stoneage, Just got my rebuilt smallport running 'again' and went for a couple laps of the local streets running the car hard.... got home to find my dip stick popped and oil everywhere..... Now I have had this engine running quite a bit without actually putting it under any load as I was trouble shooting other problems... I did notice that it became quite smokey out the exhaust and the top of the pistons were oily when I took the plugs out (plugs were reasonably clean though)

Could this be an issue where the rings didn't bed in and now its got blowby issues? do I still have a chance of been able to run it in so it fixes itself so to speak... ?

Should I just vent the cam cover breather to atmo and continue driving?

how many km has it done? what's your break in procedure?

[NIZLAH]

just over 20 km Sam, first proper drive was today, (the first time I got it running the rear main seal popped out (could be related) I just went for another drive with the cam cover breather venting to atmo and the manifold port blocked off (was hooked up like factory), although I didn't drive it as hard the dipstick seemed to stay in its home this time round... drive was cut short though due to my epoxy bypass pipe repair failing..

Break in is just drive it and keep it under load and what not, Ive reached the point where my care factor has gone out the window so I'm just driving it in typical fashion...

Smoke seems to have gone from exhaust, not sure about when driving but cant see any major plumes behind me..

[Sam-Q]

being so new I would say give it some time, don't rev it over 5000 yet and use 3/4 throttle as much as possible. It should be good yet.

[Matt]

Its pretty normal to have blue smoke for the first few kms...

I'd stick a compression tester on it.

[timbo]

Flog the shit out of it now, heaps of loading up ills etc, no smoke means the rings have bed in. Check the cam cover breather is clear, same for the manifold.

[NIZLAH]

Flog the shit out of it now, heaps of loading up ills etc, no smoke means the rings have bed in. Check the cam cover breather is clear, same for the manifold.

Plan to as soon as I sort out my leaking bypass pipe, if its not one thing its another... figured the thermostat wasn't opening either so running without it atm also.....

[blair]

I'm gonna add my problem to here seeing as it's had an almighty bump already haha.

Trackday scenario only, doesnt happen from regular driving (not that i drive it regularly anymore)

Oil is leaking out of my cam covers (re-tightened, no help) and my distributor o-ring (replaced before last track day)

Only change is i have fitted a cusco catch can. 1 outlet from cam cover straight to catch can, other port on catch can has a supercheap special filter.

anyone had any experience with these catch cans? I'm worried i'ts blocking up my breathing system and forcing oil out where it shouldn't go...

Have had cam covers off, sparkling clean - but the baffles aren't removable so obviously can't see in dere.

In the little time at the track when i was willing to stop having fun and fault find... when i take the oil cap off the amount of 'blowby' seems allllllllllllllot more than what could possibly squeeze through baffles then 8mm barb, through 1.5m of hose, through more baffles then a filter.

Solution? weld some unbaffled (maybe just a small plate to stop spashes going straight into the hose) AN10 fittings on the cam covers like ive seen some jap cars and turbo lads do and run to a new unbaffled tank?

Car gets HOT by the way.... oil see's 120 easily. water sits on 80 however.

[lolwat]

what oil you running blair
you run an oil cooler?

[blair]

nulon 20/50, changed between every track day.

Yeh i do run a cooler, with a mocal inline thermostat which i am actually removing due to lack of daily driving anymore, and crazy new exhaust taking up all the room there now haha.

Should probably buy a better core though. just an IAP crappy one.

My dipstick pops only a tiny bit up occasionally, but not enough pressure down there to warrant me ziptieing it in or anything

[lolwat]

yea fair enough, better core wouldnt hurt 120 getting up there,
just saying guys, spring and a little hose clamp, hose clamp spring to dipstick, and bend a hook on 1 end of the spring and hook it over dipstick, every 2nd evo i see has this

like this or dipstick not up the middle of the srping
http://maritime.dns.ca/scottm/misc/DipStick01.jpg

[slide86]

Did you do a track day before fitting the catch can?

And there was no oil leak issues on that track day?

[Golberg]

Its a bit of a worry to have such blow by issues.

Its a proper genuine RWD manifold yeah? Not a cut and shut manifold?

What did you replace in the rebuild, and why?

[NIZLAH]

If aimed at me, then it's a fwd drive motor in an ae92, all stock pretty much.. replaced pistons/rings/bearings/seals/oil pump rebuilt because head gasket was blown when I bought the car, machine work was carried out by JJH including crank grind/honing/bottom end balance, I did some port matching and grinding behind the valve bowls...


Its a bit of a worry to have such blow by issues.

Its a proper genuine RWD manifold yeah? Not a cut and shut manifold?

What did you replace in the rebuild, and why?

[Golberg]

Is the cam cover breather channel blocked on the intake manifold? I've seen them completely block with oil scum in the past.

It shouldn't make a difference if the breather is connected to the manifold or just vented in normal circumstances. So if its not blowing the dipstick out with it off that would suggest some sort of blockage.

[NIZLAH]

Yep your correct I think, I had a sus today and it looks to be, I scraped a heap of carbon build up out so this is my feeling also.
Apart from spraying carb cleaner down the port and scraping the accesible areas is there any other smart ways to clean the internal channel?



Is the cam cover breather channel blocked on the intake manifold? I've seen them completely block with oil scum in the past.

It shouldn't make a difference if the breather is connected to the manifold or just vented in normal circumstances. So if its not blowing the dipstick out with it off that would suggest some sort of blockage.

[timbo]

Small bottle brush or pipe cleaner would do the job, just make sure they don't dissolve.

As for Blair, that catch can wouldn't be to blame, I run one with no issues. Having it vent is fine (illegal...), check for sludge in the intake cover and maybe soak it in some degreaser.

[Golberg]

This is awesome stuff:
http://togauto.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Engine-conditioner.png

Its a cylinder head cleaner that you dump into the intake manifold then run the car. Does wonders removing built up carbon inside the engine.

You can also use it to clean places like that breather pipe.

[timbo]

^Where can you buy that from? Had a quick read about it, sounds pretty good!

[Matt]

Ebay...

4 tubes for $60 posted

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/THREEBOND-4-X-SUPER-ENGINE-CONDITIONER-TOYOTA-MR2-SW20-AW11-4AGE-CELICA-3SGTE-/111095389296?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item19ddcd1c70#ht_1048wt_904

or $18 a tube posted

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/THREEBOND-SUPER-ENGINE-CONDITIONER-240M-/321145943878?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4ac5ca3746#ht_835wt_1255

[timbo]

Cheaper at bursons, dropped in and had a browse.

[NIZLAH]

sweet looks good, Ive already attacked the port with a bottle-brush and a angled pick, needs to get something in there that will dissolve it I reckon for optimal results

[Golberg]

I pay $9 a can from some local guy that carries all sorts of auto supplies around in a van and drops them off.

[pen15]

whats the bet op has a cut and shut manifold i know all about blowby as any of the engines i build never have any blow by easy fix ventilate cam cover into a catch can and vent straight to atmosphere

[Matt]

Keen to know what is so bad about the cut n shut manis... To make sure the ones i've had done don't cause blow by issues.

[Matt]

whats the bet op has a cut and shut manifold i know all about blowby as any of the engines i build never have any blow by easy fix ventilate cam cover into a catch can and vent straight to atmosphere

its in a FWD car... so fact smallport manifold.

[slide86]

Keen to know what is so bad about the cut n shut manis... To make sure the ones i've had done don't cause blow by issues.

When they are cut and shut, most of the time it blocks off the port that runs internally along the manifold and into the throttle body. So essentially the ventilation hole is blocked off, which would cause all the positive pressure in the crankcase.

Why do people vent the other side of their catch cans to atmosphere? The entire point of the catch can is to separate the oil and air before the air goes back into the engine.

For effective crankcase ventilation you need some form of vacuum to draw the vapor out of the engine. Sure, atmo venting will work, but surely it cannot be as affective as the way it was intended.

[Golberg]

Keen to know what is so bad about the cut n shut manis... To make sure the ones i've had done don't cause blow by issues.

Check this out matt,

Explains it with photos: http://www.toymods.org.au/forums/tech-conversions/24438-tech-question-diy-4age-cut-n-shut-inlet-manifold-pics.html

[blair]

An update on mine...

I believe i had simply overfilled the engine with oil (in an attempt to compensate for the added oil cooler and lines volume)

Filled, ran, let sit for few minutes and top up to 'full' marker. Went perfectly at the track day!

[Stain]

Geez. Time warp.