water injection with quad throttle bodies

[dr1ft-pig]

hi all i am seriously considering doing water injection on my silvertop 20v

want to know how i'd go about it and has anyone here had past experiences with water injection whether it be with quads or not any engne really but would like to find how i'd go about using it on a 20v


please discuss

cheers

[Gunner]

may i ask why u want to go on such an adventure?

[dr1ft-pig]

I'm an adventurous kind of guy, what can i say

[Gunner]

as long as its not to combat pingin, its alright. man methanol injection, if u wanna get adventurous.

i always had an idea of using a sort of direct port gas set up, usin the solenoids and jets so it can be accurately tuned, with a 2l alloy tank stashed somewhere, injection pump up to a solenoid then a common block to run the lines str8 into the throttles, and triggered at full throttle like a conventional gas set up
tho its always just been an idea, and probably always will be lol

[dr1ft-pig]

yeah
i have been reading up a bit about it, i'd just like to see if anyone has had experiences with it


from what ive read and seen water injection will make your engine incrase power which is caused by the water atomising when sucked into the intake which would in theory would create a kind of "boost" and with the water it keeps the pistons and bore at an even temp to prevent "hot spots" etc

i would like to know more as with me running a microtech i can set it up to run off an auzhilary port on the ecu which i can choose to "kick in" at a certain TPS angle, RPM or even engine temp(engine temp is pointless) but yeah

just toying with the idea at the moment but very keen to do it and have the cash to do so as from what i have read the kits arent overly expensive so yeah

please discuss experiences and please let me know if there is anything i have missed apart from the fact it would be illegal as it would effect emissions but that doesnt worry me

[Gunner]

well the only hang up i'd have with running it of an auxilary out, is that its always going to work unless the system is disarmed. where with havng it triggered of the throttle, u can have it armed and still drive it hard without it actually coming on. (as long as u don't get to full throttle)

what u have said about the kind of boost effect is tru from what i hav been told, the way it was explained to me was it ups ur compression ratio as the water has no true burning properties in its given state. but thats why i'd prefer methanol injection, it has the same charicteristics of water once in the chamber in terms of cooling (probably better) but it burns and burns quite aggresivley.

tho i don't kno much more than that, but i trust what i have said as it was told to me by someone that knows their shit.

I'm guessin ur lookin at the kits vpw sell? i'd like to kno what happens when fitted to a 20v.

[Vezza]

Apparently a 50/50 mix of methanol and water is the way to go. Basically the water will increase the compression (water being incompressible) in the cylinders by taking up volume. But with increased compression the chances of knocking is also greater, which is where the methanol comes in. With a much higher octane than petrol it should resist any pinging from the extra compression and allow your knock sensor to run the engine at max advance and hence max power. I really doubt the tiny amount of methanol injected would help with anything other than reducing the chance of knocking, as it takes something like 2.5 times the amount of methanol to create the same amount of power as petrol.

[Gunner]

^^^true, i forgot that part, for those that don't know thats why u see methanol drag cars with twice as many injectors.

and i have heard of the 50 50 mix, and i believe thats what most people use, but as i said i haven't had any experience so i can't really comment any further.

i might do some research today

[Hen is a total nutcase]

Injecting water will not change the compression ratio. Water is incompressible as a fluid, but once you boil it (inside your combustion chamber it'll get to over 100deg) it turns to steam which is compressible.

One use of water injection is that boiling the water takes a lot of energy, so as the charge is compressed and gets hot, some of the heat is used to boil the water, hence the charge stays a bit cooler. Cooler=less likely to ping, etc...

Hen

[Gunner]

ah yeah, and from that u can dick with the timing or boost, without it pinging hence the extra power.

[rthy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hen is a total nutcase @ Feb 20 2008, 09:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=489120)</div>
Injecting water will not change the compression ratio. Water is incompressible as a fluid, but once you boil it (inside your combustion chamber it'll get to over 100deg) it turns to steam which is compressible.

One use of water injection is that boiling the water takes a lot of energy, so as the charge is compressed and gets hot, some of the heat is used to boil the water, hence the charge stays a bit cooler. Cooler=less likely to ping, etc...

Hen[/b]

I have to disagree with you on that one Hen, and thats something that doesnt usually happen. Anyway what your talking about is what I believe to be a common misconception. From what I have researched the water does take a bit of heat out of the intake but this has a relatively minor effect. The steam molecules sitting between the fuel/air mixture is meant to slow the travel of the flame front which then effectively makes the fuel act like it was 3 RON higher (acording to one source). This is why fuel injection without any other changes causes no power increase when used on an engine.

Just for the record I plan on using the 50/50 fuel methanol mix on my quad throttles in due time.

[dr1ft-pig]

cheers for the answers guys, tis a good read, ill be sure to post pics and a how to once i buy the kit

[rthy]

what kit? the english one?

I am thinking of using a modified airbrush for my atomiser

[dr1ft-pig]

unsure on the kit, i had a link but have since lost it, seemed to me the kits are around the 500 buck mark, seems quite worth it

[Gunner]

VPW do one, never seen it but its only 300 or somethin i believe.

[rthy]

couldnt find it on their site

[biggo]

devils own? or something like that.

Ken knows it, its in the states tho.

[rthy]

if you think of the name could you let us know?

[biggo]

Ebay kit (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130199478570&ih=003&category=72205&ssPageName=WDVW&rd=1)

Website <clicky Clicky> (http://www.alcohol-injection.com/)