7age motors

[wide s13]

okay since a 2nd motor went last night I'm looking at options.
i was wondering how the people that have done a 7age build going?
any problems?
easy swap?

i already have a smallport and bigport rwd motors so would i need anything else apart from the bottom end of a motor?
any links would be great i have read through the tech articles one. but just wanted to hear how the motors are acually going & any problems that may have come up?

thanks guys :2thumbs:

[riojin]

Click Here (http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/board/index.php?act=Search&f=0)

[wide s13]

yes thankyou ive done that lol
260km to 1tank fuel? thats what I'm concerned about lol

[riojin]

swap is no harder than a 4age. if you already have a 4age in your car it will be easy, just some slight engine building.

just use your current 4age head and pistons. buy some after market conrods and new rings and possibly new bottom end bearings. use a late model 7afe, remove the head, rods and pistons. replace with the 4age head, rods and pistons. use the new rings and bottom end bearings. grab a new porche timing belt and use the current ecu and rwd 4age stuff you already have.

fuel shouldnt be much worse than the 4age. it depends on tune

[wide s13]

thanks mate i have some reading material i just printed off. pretty straight forward to do buy the looks

just wondering bout how the guys that have done it compare it to a 4age? and reliability?

cheers

[slydar]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (riojin @ Aug 10 2008, 08:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=573858)</div>
swap is no harder than a 4age. if you already have a 4age in your car it will be easy, just some slight engine building.

just use your current 4age head and pistons. buy some after market conrods and new rings and possibly new bottom end bearings. use a late model 7afe, remove the head, rods and pistons. replace with the 4age head, rods and pistons. use the new rings and bottom end bearings. grab a new porche timing belt and use the current ecu and rwd 4age stuff you already have.

fuel shouldnt be much worse than the 4age. it depends on tune[/b]

almost got it...

you can't use the 4a rods, theyre not compatible. use stock rods.

small port pistons or 20v are compatible with no mods. big port are not.

you will probably need to get a machine shop/similar to fit the pistons (press fit, rod needs to be heated) apart from that, its fairly do-able for the back yard tuner who has a bit of an idea. if you have experience with say replacing a head gasket ect, you should be able to do it. you will need a torque wrench ect obviously.

most people who have one love them. lots of people who havent got them, like to say theyre not reliable, but this isnt the case in truth.

its probably a good way to get yourself a decent quantifiably low K bottom end. you should be looking to pay no more than $700 for one with around 150 000ks. youll also need a new HG, and the pistons from your small port. maybe pull them out first, see if theyre any good (or ask some one who would know, maybe the the machinist youll use to fit the pistons). you might want new rings, and a hone too. and the timing belt, oil, filter ect. so i guess youre looking to spend at least $1000 really.

there is some good info' on the club 4ag tech reference.

[riojin]

ah don't know why i said replace with 4age rods... wasnt thinking. i meant with the aftermarket 7a ones

[wide s13]

emailed a guy in the usa he said his motors still going strong with std rods and pistons from the 7afe.
8months old daily driver and drifter. he said it fun to drive lol he had to go so he will email me in detail later.
well i hope he does anywayz
He hasnt changed anything just head to block how would this compression go?for daily and odd drift days?
by swapping to later smallport ones does it raise the compression higher?

[machg]

I made my 7AGE for $500 after the 4AGE put a rod through the block. (recently swapped it for a 2TGEU) I did exactly what you are contemplating, whacked the GE head onto the FE block. It was by no means a fresh engine, but it seemed to have significantly more torque than the 4AGE. Fuel usage was very similar to the 4AGE - about 8 litres per 100 km, mind you, I kept strictly to a 6000 rpm limit as a precaution against standard 7AFE rod failure. The one thing you MUST be aware of if you go down this path is that the engine will no longer be a non-interference engine. That is; stuff up the cam timing, or have a cam belt failure and you will do major engine damage as the valves will contact the pistons. Engine was bigport based and compression was supposedly lower than standard, but seemed to go O.K. From memory, the only difference between the two head gaskets (GE and FE) was water channel hole size. Porsche 944 cam belt is the one you want.

[AmyC]

If your going to make a 7age make it properly. I havent heard much about Felix's 7age lately but last time i saw it run it got flogged by a 20v blacktop with only an adaptronic, Mind you it still beat my mates manual EB falcon.

[wide s13]

good stuff.
I'm not after outright power anymore.
just a quick fix and fun till i decide weather to rebuild my tough old engine or part out the rolla.
given me some stuff to think about so i will continue my reading today on my day off.

[70XIN]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GZE KE70 @ Aug 11 2008, 12:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=574021)</div>
If your going to make a 7age make it properly. I havent heard much about Felix's 7age lately but last time i saw it run it got flogged by a 20v blacktop with only an adaptronic, Mind you it still beat my mates manual EB falcon.[/b]

Last time i heard .. isn't felix's engine setup a little slanty motherfuckin' shanty? and somewhat untuned? But on that note, a BT 20V would still be impossible to beat in a stock 7AG.

[import_love]

might be a litttle off-topic, but why do people put the 4age heads on the 7afe?? the 7afe is newer technology and there's a whole trd catalogue on em, can someone please clear this up for me??

[wide s13]

beats me mate. I'm doing it cause i have a worked top end and don't want to sell em lol
I'm looking at it due to cheapness i have found some 7afe's compared to 4ages.

[import_love]

yeah that's fair enough in your case, is it just cause it sounds cool to have a 7age?? it's pretty amazing how cheap you can find 7afe's for. i'd chuck one in mine if i didn't have homo p-plate laws

[slydar]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GZE KE70 @ Aug 11 2008, 12:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=574021)</div>
If your going to make a 7age make it properly. I havent heard much about Felix's 7age lately but last time i saw it run it got flogged by a 20v blacktop with only an adaptronic, Mind you it still beat my mates manual EB falcon.[/b]

running poorly on a home made ecu. might be a little different now, check his build thread, it made good power atw.

on top of which, it still runs a stock intake and cams... gotta compare apples to apples. the bt would have more money invested, and sounds to me like it was probably a little more sorted too.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (import_love @ Aug 11 2008, 10:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=574088)</div>
might be a litttle off-topic, but why do people put the 4age heads on the 7afe?? the 7afe is newer technology and there's a whole trd catalogue on em, can someone please clear this up for me??[/b]

because most people arent starting from scratch, and if they are, a standard 7afe doesnt really add up against a 4age for most people who own a rwd corolla.

theyre also familiar to work with, and will work with ancilaries you will already have as most people who do a 7ag already have a running (or one that has just stopped) 4ag in their engine bay. plus if you use 4ag pistons, you get really good CR, which you can't get in a 7a without going to an aftermarket piston, or 4ag piston even with a thin HG, as the 7a runs a .8mm gasket standard.

id also like to see this "trd catalogue".. what can you get? cams? cams gears? for how much? i have read that 1 or 2 people have theorised that the 7a is a good head to work with NA (and maybe one person has acted on this and built a high power na engine) but really it doesnt make sense to base your engine on this head. the 4ag heads are still a sound design, with cheap performance parts available for them, and rwd accessories available off the shelf, for most peoples realistic goals, the 4age head still makes way more sense when you weigh it all up.

also, it has been proven by people with first hand experience with this engine, that rods are not necessary with standard rev limits on na motors, felix did not build his engine, be bought the car 2nd hand with the 7ag already running, i would say greg put a decent amount of hard k's on it, and so has felix, with no rod failure yet.

wide s13 is basically in the perfect position to do a 7a conversion and reap the rewards. he needs a replacement engine, and for a little bit more cash than it would take just to replace his, he can end up with less ks than most 2nd hand 16v 4ags, more torque due to the displacement, and more response on account of a higher cr.

[import_love]

just a mechanic i was workin with who's a fairly experienced said that the 7afe's are fairly good and that he has seen a full trd catalogue(mind you probably really expensive). but yeah i was just wondering. thanks, you most certainly answered my question

[Driftspec]

Talking roughly (really, really roughly), the aim is to add extra torque to a 4AGE-based motor, or, in reverse, add extra power to a 7AFE (due to the better head). I know theres a lot more to it than that, and I certainly know that there is more than one way to skin a cat - Talk to SamQ, I'm pretty sure he is still looking at a build with a 7AFE head in it.

The 7AFE motor is a good engine stock (having one at home in a Corolla), but there are a few people that have taken the advantage of using the bigger bottom end with the proven reliability and flexibility of the 4AGE top-end, as slydar said.

Bes tof luck Wide, it should be cracker when its up and running :2thumbs:

[rthy]

dam i sold a low kms 7afe for $150

[starni_boy]

I have a 7ag, but I havent had it running yet.

Has a 20v silvertop head, which will have a little bit of work done to it when the time comes. I'm basically just getting the RWD bits at the moment, but am hoping for at least 90kw at the rear wheels. Going for 20v pistons on it too.

Basically, Wide S13 is in a perfect position for this conversion (as said before), because you can use the 4a mounts and everything.

Good luck mate.

[wide s13]

ive read stories of bottom ends not being strong but then ive read that they have simply wacked on a 4a head on a 7a bottom end and there going strong after 12months no modifications etc, so thats why i was asking for people with them acually running here to see if i should do it.

at this stage i didnt want to wreck a sweet head and valves if something falured due to new clearances but I'm yet to read one accually doing that.

I'm ringing round get prices on 7afe's so I'm going to do it as dad said hell pay for my old tough motor to get built :)

[starni_boy]

I paid $600 for mine with a head, around mid last year

[shelldrake]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (starni_boy @ Aug 11 2008, 04:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=574184)</div>
I have a 7ag, but I havent had it running yet.

Has a 20v silvertop head, which will have a little bit of work done to it when the time comes. I'm basically just getting the RWD bits at the moment, but am hoping for at least 90kw at the rear wheels. Going for 20v pistons on it too.

Basically, Wide S13 is in a perfect position for this conversion (as said before), because you can use the 4a mounts and everything.

Good luck mate.[/b]

I'm really keen to see how yours turns out Starni...Get it happening and let us know the results!

[starni_boy]

hmm, don't know how far away it will be, thats the only problem.

[86adz]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GZE KE70 @ Aug 11 2008, 12:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=574021)</div>
If your going to make a 7age make it properly. I havent heard much about Felix's 7age lately but last time i saw it run it got flogged by a 20v blacktop with only an adaptronic, Mind you it still beat my mates manual EB falcon.[/b]


i drove felix's car on the big cruise around 6months ago to brissy up springas etc you may be right that a blacktop 20v would probably be quicker in a straight out drag but where i noticed the difference was through the hills having more torque between 3 and 5 thou pulling in 3rd rather than revving this tits off it all the time. some people say that high revs make 7as go bang, but ive seen felix crunch 2nd a few times and over rev to 7500+ and its still holding together lol he now has the adaptronic, fixed exhaust and vacuum leaks so maybe old mate with the 20v might be up for a re-run :yes:

[slydar]

yeah, actually driving it upto that point (mid 7s) seems to be ok even, but people who run them in race cars whove miss shifted and pushed them up near 9 a few times, are the ones who have reported rod bolts stripping out.. honestly, ive contemplated doing it for years, and done alot of research, and for a street/drift set up, its a real good set up.

[wide s13]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (slydar @ Aug 11 2008, 06:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=574279)</div>
yeah, actually driving it upto that point (mid 7s) seems to be ok even, but people who run them in race cars whove miss shifted and pushed them up near 9 a few times, are the ones who have reported rod bolts stripping out.. honestly, ive contemplated doing it for years, and done alot of research, and for a street/drift set up, its a real good set up.[/b]

thats what my roll basicly is a daily/drifter setup.
I'm going to build one just finding a 7afe to use now :)

[MSF Racing]

is it true that some honda pistons fit them

[lo_rolla]

Pretty sure you can get after market 7A rods from Argo...

[riojin]

argo as in

http://www.argorace.com.au/index.cfm?menukey=13

?

[70XIN]

You can get:


-Argo (1K+ delivered)
-Pauter (800 US delivered)
-Crower Pro (750 US delivered)
-Belfab (450 US delivered!!)


Unknown quality on the last set, but seem to be doing well in ye old BP/B6 mazdas, i'd give them a go if i was on a budget and i needed rods




And no honda pistons/rods fit. Some came close, but didn't quite make the measurements.

[starni_boy]

yes.

Set on trade me at the moment.

[riojin]

http://belfabracing.com/

the 7a rods on belfab are the no.1 best seller

[slydar]

theres a toyota wrecker on the gold coast that usually has about 3 or 4.

[starni_boy]

thanks for that link riojin, will look into those!

[riojin]

thank 7OXIN and google, not me :turned:

[Felix]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (wide s13 @ Aug 10 2008, 08:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=573854)</div>
yes thankyou ive done that lol
260km to 1tank fuel? thats what I'm concerned about lol[/b]

It should be the same as a 4age with a proper tune.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GZE KE70 @ Aug 11 2008, 12:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=574021)</div>
If your going to make a 7age make it properly. I havent heard much about Felix's 7age lately but last time i saw it run it got flogged by a 20v blacktop with only an adaptronic, Mind you it still beat my mates manual EB falcon.[/b]

Yeah, its true - except I had my car running ridiculously rich which caused it to bog down on take off, it makes roughly another 30-40hp and never bogs down so i guess i'd give him a good run for his money.

Put it this way, I can kick my car out in the dry in 3rd gear without a clutch kick on a slight bend

starts to pull from 2.5k and is constant until 6 - I now have the rev limiter set to 6800 and will fiddle with it abit once i get my laptop hooked up to the adaptronic

[dr1ft-pig]

yeah that tupperware spec tune u had before was no good


i ran my old S/T 20v against it and i pulled away up high

[machg]

I have to agree that if you've got the dosh, you'd be mad not to do the job properly (aftermarket rods, ecu and proper pistons), but I only paid $200 for my 7afe block and was broke. It was great having the last laugh at the knockers "That won't work" "What a waste of a good head gasket" etc. etc. when she was finally in and running, then ran faultlessly for so long. :P

[wide s13]

i just found myself a 7afe for $450 compression tested :)
I'm no longer cranky bout 2x 4ages f**king up lol

[riojin]

compression doesnt matter that much, you should be putting new rings on the 4a pistons anyway. but $450 is a pretty good price

[wide s13]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (riojin @ Aug 12 2008, 03:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=574688)</div>
compression doesnt matter that much, you should be putting new rings on the 4a pistons anyway. but $450 is a pretty good price[/b]

pfft to 4a pistons :)
I'm just going to whack it together std bottom end like a guy I'm chatting to in the usa has done :)
if it fails i don't really care my other 4age blocks getting rebuilt anywayz lol

[machg]

I predict you'll be happy with the results.

[slydar]

youll probably still end up with around the same as a stock bp anyway, ive seen the shape of the fe pistons, its not much dish, and with the extra stroke you get some back anyway.

[wide s13]

better torque would be good aparently the 7age is not as peaky as a 4age?
guess i will find out soon enough

[lowau]

Whats the standard rev limit of a 7afe?

[munki]

Interesting to see how the STD computer works with this setup.

[machg]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lowau @ Aug 13 2008, 03:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=575042)</div>
Whats the standard rev limit of a 7afe?[/b]
I am fairly sure its 6000 rpm, might be a little more (6500)