Twin Charging

[biggo]

Well I'm not sure if theres been a definate thread on this in awhile, so I'm going to share with you my plan so you can poke holes in it

8.0CR GZE with SC12
Stock Intake mani
Currently makes ~7pound

Custom Himount exhaust mani
T25g
etc etc

Now the fun part,

I'm trying to get some all round oomph in my car, so the plan is to just run the turbo thru the SC.

Problem 1:
The Sc output and turbo output are on oppisite sides of the car. So I'm going to get me one of these
Do a lil trickery with some magical metal bonder and add another output to the other side. Do i run the inlets closest to the sc output or turbo out put. You will not that there will be uber amouts of piping to be done so this is imperative.

Problem 2

Its an afm version GZE, at this stage i reckon ill whack the afm onto the turbo inlet.

Problem 3
I'm a cheap bastard. So unless i go straight turbo I'm going to try and keep what i can. No bigport pelum at this stage. Nor do i want to remove the SC as ill have to relocate the Alternator and do yet more trickery.

It idea of this setup is well, I'm cheap! I really only want about 12pound so i think (hoping) the SC12 will handle that. I do however realise there are so many ways to do a twin charge setup (J pipe the SC for one, conventional IC etc etc) Id like to hear so opinions.

Also there note there is nothing beyond biggos abilities. Where theres a will theres a hammer!

[cando1]

It is not do-able to have both.

Either increase you pulley on your SC or Turbo

Everybody wants the best of best worlds !
Been down the same path but , with sequential turbo's

[ke70dave]

i think its possible

ie this video--->

that thing sounds like a motorbike, revs like crazy, he starts it up at about 2mins in, ive got this feeling its not a stock 4agze though..

bit of inspiration :2thumbs:

I would get a aftemarket ecu to make sure it works properly.

there seem alot of different ideas floating around on the internet..

edit: just found this



have a read, got some interesting points/pictures.

also mentions that blowing air from your turbo into your supercharger is very restrictive, really need to get some type of bypass/controll valve happening to shut out the supercharger at the high revs.

quote from that website

If you're not turning off the supercharger once the turbo is on boost, your wasting power, without a bypass valve the most your motor can make is governed by how well the super charger deals with being force fed. Also, if you know anything about Toyota roots superchargers you'd know they're Teflon coated. Hot air straight out of a turbo onto the blades would cook off the Teflon in no time.

[mr2gze]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cando1 @ May 20 2008, 01:36 PM) </div>Are you joking?

Its very do-able to have both, and has been done time and time again! Do not propogate your opinion as fact. You are wrong.

You are on the right track Biggo. Turbo feeding the SC seems to be the most common way in my experience.

Yes definatley put the afm in front of the turbo inlet.

cheers

[slydar]

FAIL

[balistic]

I have seen this set-up, but it looked like a lot of frigging around to make it work. For the effort, time and money involved in making it work I think its more a novelty solution than an actual viable cheap solution to turbo lag.

I'd agree with KE70Dave - the SC's main purpose would be to reduce turbo lag at low revs but once the turbo gets onto full song you don't want the SC in the system creating a restriction so it would need to be bypassed somehow. It may be much easier to use a properly matched turbo and a well tuned aftermarket ECU to get the desired result?

But if you are just doing it for the novelty value then go for it!

[PuGZoR]

cando1, seriously, don't reply if you aren't sure. Just because you haven't seen one, doesn't mean it won't work. Twincharging is a very do-able thing, have seen it done on a variety of vehicles and engines. Hell, there was even a HKS kit made for the 4AGE!

If I remember correctly from write up's I've seen, there may be an issue with the supercharger still wanting to draw air even when the turbo is not spooling or something-or-other. Somehow a vacuum is formed, between the turbo and supercharger, or something equally terminal happens if you don't set it up right. May want to read a lot of theory articles on twincharging, as this will provide you with a lot of information that will be helpful. IMHO, you're going to find a hell of a lot more problems with system design than just trying to adapt it all to a 4AG/Z/E.

Problem 2 can be solved by fixing a problem you're going to have to face anyway. Your GZE computer is probably not going to like twincharging much, considering they usually start playing up with ~12psi through a T28 turbo only. You will more than likely be getting an aftermarket engine management system that goes on MAP, such as a Microtech (definatly more suitable EMS's out there, but I use a Microtech so I know how it works, don't know bout many other EMS's though), which would suit this kind of odd work pretty well I'd imagine.

Problem 3... well, if you've already got a running GZE, it should be just a case of some creative plumbing to add on the turbo. Remember, you're going to have to get a turbo, manifold, dump pipe, exhaust modified for it, and a whole heap of other things. Hope you've got a good driveline to handle this all too... I don't know if this is the kind of thing you'd want to get involved in if you're on a tight budget... turbo conversions are hard enough, lol, but twincharging adds a whole new set of things to bugger up.

Just my two cents. Take it all with a grain of salt, just my experiences so far looking at the concept. If you can pull it off though, jesus christ it'd be fun. Good luck.

[choom78]

look at the volkswagon TSI for inspiration.

Turbo and supercharger.

[slydar]

FAIL

1 good turbo will out perform a twin charge set up on a 4age.

less plumbing, way less weight, easy to get working at its optimum. if you get yourself say a hks 2510. itll boost from like 2k, to past 7 and make a good 160kw atw.

seriously, when do you need boost below 2000 rpm? plus up top it wont be restricted by all the extra plumbing youll need for twin charge, no matter how you do it.

i havent heard of the tsi.. are you sure? anyway i wouldn't take Volkswagens word for it being good. they also have v5 engines.. not cos theyre good, just to be different.

[pope]

^ don't dismiss the idea so quickly. A carefully selected turbo and supercharged that work better in their RPM ranges will be more efficient than a single turbo that covers a greater RPM range.